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Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

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Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#221

I saw a study recently, unfortunately I can't locate it now. It discussed the possibility of there having been past civilizations on Earth, hundreds of millions or even billions of years ago. The conclusion was that this can't be entirely ruled out. It noted how few actual fossil remains we have for what we know of dinosaurs, and that there's a lot of space left in those gaps for all the evidence to have been destroy…

It's incredibly improbable. While much of the planet's surface is recycled constantly, there are also huge swaths of land that are billions of years old and haven't changed enough to hide evidence of complex society. Dinosaur fossils are rare, but not that rare. Tiny ones are abundant. If all life on earth ceased today, you could come back here in a billion years and find plenty of evidence everywhere. Maybe it's not…

> there are also huge swaths of land that are billions of years old and haven't changed enough to hide evidence of complex society

Do you have any examples? The article in the sibling comment to yours directly states that the oldest large-scale swath of land (in the Negev Desert) only dates to 1.8 million years.

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#222
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are they exactly at our level of development? If so, then at just 12ly away, we could converse with them within (many of) our lifetimes.

Could we? Despite stellar levels of energy being emitted, this star itself was only detected in 2003. We have to use the Deep Space Network to communicate with probes light-hours away. I'm no expert so it very well may be possible, but 12 LY is still Very far.

It wouldn't be possible to send a message literally today, using existing structures. If we had a reason to, we could certainly develop and build new systems that could bridge the distance.

The main key difference is that the send/receive ends would be symmetric. DSN has to counterbalance the incredibly small size and power limits on the other end of its connections.

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt I'm alone in this, but I do find it simultaneously amusing and depressing how mind bogglingly big the universe (or even the galaxy) is. It's clear that discovering entirely new levels of physics will be necessary to stand a chance of going anywhere.

I've read that most of Lovecraft's is derived from the horror at realizing how insanely large in both space and time the universe is. The unspeakable horrors and mind defying deities in his oeuvre are effectively just reiteration of the "the human race is an irrelevant blip on the universe's radar" concept.

Well that just cries out for a quote :)

"We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." - H.P. Lovecraft "The Call of Cthulhu"

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is exactly why there's an apocalypse fantasy/fetish. It's in our psyche that we're all focused on... well... dumb shit. A post-apocalypse lifestyle makes you focus on what I think we can all truly appreciate as important. There's a lot of interesting studies done on localized disasters where the idea of community actually erupts out of it. People working together and sharing, regardless of their "social…

I have a similar experience from my childhood. I grew up under communism in eastern europe and I remember the crisis we were going through at the time, food was rationed and there were long queues everywhere. People were even joining queues without knowing what was being sold and some would start lining up overnight. I was a kid back then and didn't experience the adversity first hand but I could see and sense what w…

So, I was born in the USA, but my parents are from Poland and left a few years before the collapse. They shared many similar stories with me over the years. Generally, when the environment is bad, the local people are good. But the reverse is true too. When the environment is good, people tend to suck.

It's weird to be honest. A lot of books/movies think utopia arises in the land of plenty. But I guess a real utopia is where we all suffer against a common threat/enemy. That's when we're most human?

But when it comes to communism, it does have it's upsides. Like now in Venezuela, almost everyone is equally poor as shit. Thus, criminals don't rob people. Bullets cost too much money compared to how much they can rob from people, if they even have anything. That's a win... I guess. Great way to stomp out crime. Make everyone too poor to even bother robbing.

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#225
If there is a Life friendly planet, which is much older than where we live, shouldn't there be life forms?

Shouldn't those be searching for other life supporting planets, vigorously than us since they would be much mature and advanced?

why no one found us?

WHAT IS THE PROBABILITY OF US FINDING AN ALIEN VS AN ADVANCED RACE FINDING US AS ALIEN?

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#226
post #107

The note that it's an old star makes me worry though. If they're older then us, and habitable, were they inhabited? Our current era is a few hundred years of real, directed technological development. A few thousands years either side of that and who knows what we'd be looking at, but you imagine that - hopefully - the general progression of technology is forward. So if they were inhabited, what happened to them? Are…

> So if they were inhabited, what happened to them? Are they exactly at our level of development? Earlier? Hopefully. Because later poses some real big questions - does technology top out about where we are now - no FTL travel, no really big radio transmitters or stellar engineering? No probes to nearby star systems? Did they even make it past the nuclear age, or avoid wrecking their climate? You get more than one ch…

Actually if we find life on other planets that is bad news for us as a species:

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/409936/where-are-they/

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#227

The trilogy _Three Body Problem_ is a good read, and has something to say about this. :)

I had high hopes, but TBP is a terrible novel. It certainly has some fascinating ideas, but just as many ludicrous ones that are equally central to the plot. Not to mention Liu is absolutely terrible at anything relating to characters: dialogue, character development, etc.

I was just debating about this book and read some not so favorable goodreads reviews about it. Can anyone recommend something similar to 2001 oddysey (the book) specially the part about going through the stargate?

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#228

If there is a Life friendly planet, which is much older than where we live, shouldn't there be life forms? Shouldn't those be searching for other life supporting planets, vigorously than us since they would be much mature and advanced? why no one found us? WHAT IS THE PROBABILITY OF US FINDING AN ALIEN VS AN ADVANCED RACE FINDING US AS ALIEN?

"We can be either alone in the Universe, or not alone. Both possibilities are terrifying" (quoting from memory).

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#229

If there is a Life friendly planet, which is much older than where we live, shouldn't there be life forms? Shouldn't those be searching for other life supporting planets, vigorously than us since they would be much mature and advanced? why no one found us? WHAT IS THE PROBABILITY OF US FINDING AN ALIEN VS AN ADVANCED RACE FINDING US AS ALIEN?

Well, I guess that is where the Fermi paradox comes in...

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The birthday paradox works because you are looking for a pair that has the same birthday, regardless of what date that birthday is. It doesn't work in the habitable planet sense because you would be essentially locking the birthday to a fixed date.

Yes. How many people do you need in a room to be confident that one of them has the same birthday as you?

You need 253 people in the room to have > 50% probability that one will have the same birthday as you.

1 - ((365 - 1)/365)^253 = 0.5005

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