Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles • Hacker News Board

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#911

Post by rconti » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

tcfunk wrote: post #733

rconti wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever used iDrive? I've been using it in cars occasionally for at least 10 years and it still confuses me. I just bought my first vehicle with it yesterday, so maybe I'll get better at it. Touchscreens are not great in cars but if you can perform the action quickly, it beats fiddling with a knob for 15 seconds.

Does it? I can locate and adjust a knob without ever taking my eyes off the road. The same can't be said for a touchscreen.

You didn't answer the iDrive question. I can find and fiddle with the knob/control, but I still need to look at the screen to figure out what actually happened. It's not like a simple volume knob which I can do without looking.

IOW a well-designed touchscreen UI can be better than a poorly designed non-touchscreen UI. And, unfortunately, most car infotainment systems are poorly-designed.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#912

Post by jrochkind1 » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

marapuru wrote: post #47

Praise to Mazda for making this decision. As a User Experience Professional, I was never able to grasp the true user's need for touch screens in cars. For years I have been working on product interfaces (not just apps). Many studies I conducted actually told me that people favored analog controls over digital touch screens controls. It gives you tactile feedback, making it accessible for anyone with sense of touch. >…

> Many studies I conducted actually told me that people favored analog controls over digital touch screens controls. It gives you tactile feedback, making it accessible for anyone with sense of touch.

I assumed this was widely known (because of COURSE we do), but the digital touch screens were CHEAPER than dedicated physical controls for all desired functions. To design as well as to mass produce.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#913

Post by nradov » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #902

nradov wrote: post #901

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I'm missing something but how could the Dragon capsule automation handle something like the emergency that occurred during the Gemini 8 mission? Without manual control by the astronauts it could have turned into a real disaster. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_8#Emergency

Computing and testing has come a long way since the Gemini days. We now have aircraft (particularly military fighters) that are literally uncontrollable without the computers.

Those control systems only work within certain preprogrammed constraints. They are generally incapable of handling unexpected situations outside of the design limits.

Computerized fly by wire systems still depend on a pilot in the loop, especially in the case of a mechanical failure.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#914

Post by Eugr » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #851

saltminer wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be equating touchscreens with safety and quality. These do not go hand in hand - the underlying system can be absolute crap with a touchscreen (remember old dedicated GPS units?), or they could be Tesla-equivalent but with a weird physical button input system. > Sometimes that means interacting with the navigation interface while under way, whether it’s due to updating a route, checking for traffic, zoomi…

Oh I definitely understand that the vast majority of touch screens are utter trash! But that's not to say that all are. Understanding what lane I need to be in, and what the traffic conditions are up ahead around the bend; these things add to situational awareness that makes driving safer. But I'm just not going to use a shit GPS that I need to program an address by spinning a scroll wheel and individually selecting…

You can tap on the bubble in the search results to display information about the place and it will have a call button there. Don't remember if it still has that bubble once you start navigating.

It is also supposed to give you POI info including the phone and working hours if you tap on any POI bubble on the screen, but it doesn't work for some reason.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#915

Post by satellitec4t » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

isostatic wrote: post #884

jefurii wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally understand the business case for touchscreens in cars. It's all about reducing cost to the business , but this usually comes at the expense of safety, which is a totally unacceptable tradeoff.

That's a rather communist view. The free market allows people to buy cheaper cars at the expense of their safety, what's wrong with that?

A. Please be sarcasm..

B. That's.. not communism.

C. Especially in this case, the safety issue affects everyone else on the road, too. If someone crashes into you while playing with their Apple Play, congrats on enjoying the unregulated free market.

If your kid takes a ride in a friend's dirt cheap car they bought because they're 17 and they get in a wreck, congrats.

If manufacturers can make and sell unsafe cars, they will, and it will drive up the cost of safe cars.

When products as critical as cars unsafe, it costs everyone, even those who don't buy them.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#916

Post by isostatic » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

satellitec4t wrote: post #915

isostatic wrote: post #884

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a rather communist view. The free market allows people to buy cheaper cars at the expense of their safety, what's wrong with that?

A. Please be sarcasm.. B. That's.. not communism. C. Especially in this case, the safety issue affects everyone else on the road, too. If someone crashes into you while playing with their Apple Play, congrats on enjoying the unregulated free market. If your kid takes a ride in a friend's dirt cheap car they bought because they're 17 and they get in a wreck, congrats. If manufacturers can make and sell unsafe cars, th…

I do indulge in sarcasm on occasion yes ;)

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#917

Post by satellitec4t » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:37 PM UTC

isostatic wrote: post #916

satellitec4t wrote: post #915

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A. Please be sarcasm.. B. That's.. not communism. C. Especially in this case, the safety issue affects everyone else on the road, too. If someone crashes into you while playing with their Apple Play, congrats on enjoying the unregulated free market. If your kid takes a ride in a friend's dirt cheap car they bought because they're 17 and they get in a wreck, congrats. If manufacturers can make and sell unsafe cars, th…

I do indulge in sarcasm on occasion yes ;)

Phew

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#918

Post by RankingMember » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:43 PM UTC

mikelward wrote: post #811

RankingMember wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "no way to turn the car off but leave the radio or AC on" complaint doesn't make sense to me, as the AC compressor is powered by the engine's accessory drive belt, which won't turn if the engine's off. Otherwise, those sound like fair complaints. I'd add that Honda tried to go to a touch-based volume control in 2015/2016 and it was universally panned for its poor responsiveness and requirement that users take th…

I imagine the fan could still work?

Yep, the fan will work, but you won't get cold air.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#919

Post by bluGill » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

laughinghan wrote: post #684

ThePirateofOz wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And every single application loaded and installed, software library, SDK and license has to be rolled up into the BOM for every headunit sold/installed.

It seems obvious to me that one team of software engineers doing testing and diagnostics on a piece of software is way cheaper than training and then paying entire factories to do testing and diagnostics on each button and knob. (Not to mention we're talking about like, volume controls. Not exactly the most complicated and expensive kind of software to engineer.)

Not to mention if you screw up the software an update is generally cheap and easy. If your button is messed up you have to pay for a mechanic to tear apart the entire dash.

Of course you need to get the touch screen reliable. A touch screen is more complex than a button, but if we call it the cost of 10 buttons, a touch screen replaces more than 10 buttons...

For common functions separate buttons are better for UX. However the touch screen is cheaper.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#920

Post by Fins » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #844

Fins wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than touchscreen, though, especially when moving (only doing it as a passenger, of course!)

You must have used some really terrible touchscreen GPSes.

Pretty much top of the line.

There's a big difference between what is safe and convenient when you are sitting at your desk, lazily poking at the screen, and what is acceptable when you are barrelling down the highway, with the screen you need to stretch your arm to reach.