Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 262 posts

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#241

Post by grey-area »

rafiki6 wrote: post #202
grey-area wrote: post #62

This appears to be: 1. Pegged to USD 2. Controlled by a central entity 3. Tied to a social media account So it has very little to do with currencies like bitcoin (it certainly violates the spirit of them, even if it chooses to reproduce some of the morphology), but they are IMO associating it with cryptocurrencies for publicity and more importantly in the hope of avoiding regulation by confounding regulators for long…

When it comes to the financial system, the thing that gets most companies is regulation. As much as these tech companies want to play bank, they just don't have the right skillset to navigate the complexity of regulations across multiple regions. Finance's problem isn't tech. People assume the issue with a banks payment system is the fact that it runs on some mainframe running Cobol. False. The main problem is that t…

I agree with some of what you say here, but do think payments is ripe for transformation and the software companies will do so, as they have so many other industries.

The goal is quite simple, to own global payments (a trillion dollar market currently owned by a cosy duopoly).

The intended method is to do an end run around regulation as they have done with privacy regulation (hence the bitcoinish cover).

I disagree it is smart for visa to invest unless they have a majority interest.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#242

Post by grey-area »

buboard wrote: post #205
root_axis wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/millions-facebook-user-records-... I'm guessing your response will be that it wasn't Facebook's fault. I would also note that there aren't even 10 billion people living on earth, so it sounds like you're just making stuff up.

you 'll notice in that article that it wasn't facebook's servers that were breached. Also facebook has probably way more accounts than humans, i think just recently they deleted 3 billion fake ones. Regardless, imho from many years working with their platform, they do take security seriously and they ve helped to popularize methods for securing accounts and passwords.

Regardless, imho from many years working with their platform

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#243

Post by grey-area »

russdpale wrote: post #138
grey-area wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be concerned if dealing with Zuckerberg. If it fails they lose lots of money, if it succeeds FB has huge leverage over them which it didn’t have before. Can’t really see an upside for these companies to this.

The point is that its "trustless", they don't have to trust zuckerberg, they can see the code themselves and where the payments fee's break way to, he isn't the only one running nodes from what I understand, I believe the partners are as well, which I imagine is the only way they agreed to this.

We'll see, I suspect FB will retain sufficient control for it to require trusting FB.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#244

Post by onion-soup »

bduerst wrote: post #196
onion-soup wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is possible and it is already done on Bitcoin SV (original bitcoin). Recently 128 MB block were mined as a proof that bitcoin can scale to hundreds of thousands of transactions per second

> Anything is Possible with Bitcoin ᵗᵐ Just that the network known as Bitcoin can't do that. The block mined just 10 minutes ago was capped at 0.904 MB. Anyone can mine a gigabyte sized block on their own computer, but that doesn't make it Bitcoin (even when branded as Bitcoin SV ).

>Anyone can mine a gigabyte sized block on their own computer, but that doesn't make it Bitcoin

So you just pulling facts out of your ass? Read the white paper then come back

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#245

Post by buboard »

grey-area wrote: post #242
buboard wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you 'll notice in that article that it wasn't facebook's servers that were breached. Also facebook has probably way more accounts than humans, i think just recently they deleted 3 billion fake ones. Regardless, imho from many years working with their platform, they do take security seriously and they ve helped to popularize methods for securing accounts and passwords.

Regardless, imho from many years working with their platform It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. Upton Sinclair

nah i wish that was the case

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#246

Post by maxlybbert »

thefounder wrote: post #223
maxlybbert wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting the animated Dilbert TV show when Dilbert buys his mom a gift card: “you’ve exchanged your money for something like money, but less useful.”

Well, you can't send physical money over optical/copper cables, can you?

Personally, I believe PayPal, Western Union, banks, etc. have come up with decent ways to send money electronically.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#247

Post by dwild »

panarky wrote: post #239
nostrademons wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The surrounding context around an idea is always changing. Facebook itself was tried many times with various degrees of success (MySpace; Friendster; LiveJournal; Classmates.com; Xanga; EZBoards; AOL; Usenet; fingerd; BBSes; etc.), but it took a new and relatively trusting generation getting online and being packed onto dense college campuses to make it take off. I personally think that Facebook's cryptocurrency will…

> strong possibility of it succeeding in the developing world and failing in the developed world It could work pretty well in the developed world, too, if transactions are instant and cheaper than credit cards or PayPal. But whether it succeeds or fails as a payment system has nothing to do with any blockchain tech, or whether they call it a cryptocurrency. This is not a competitor to Bitcoin, because it cannot be wh…

It can still be "open, borderless" though.

I can't use Venmo. Even if I would like to, I simply can't.

I can have a Libra wallet though and even if Visa, Mastercard, Paypal and Stripe decide that my market isn't big enough to sell me some Libra directly, I can still have that wallet and find others means to fill it.

That fit both the open and borderless nature of it.

I'm not saying it will be cheap, and surely filling it would require an intermediary (like in every single others cases), but at least that intermediary can be anyone that have a Libra wallet. That person could simply be someone that does wire transfer to someone that can purchase Libra, don't care, but it's now possible.

Sure having them behind make it not possible to be "neutral, censorship-resistant, and public", but at the end of the day, does it matters to me that just want to pay? Nope. Would it matter to me if I want to give money to Wikileak, sure most probably, but that's not why I want it. Like you said, that's not its purpose.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#248

Post by dwild »

maxlybbert wrote: post #152
maxlybbert wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting the animated Dilbert TV show when Dilbert buys his mom a gift card: “you’ve exchanged your money for something like money, but less useful.”

I finally found a real source, and as usual, my memory leaves much to be desired (ultimately Dilbert gets a gift certificate): Alice: A gift certificate is completely different from cash. Dilbert: No, it's not. They're both pieces of paper you can exchange for goods and services. Alice: You're missing the point. Dilbert: Actually, a gift certificate is worse than cash, because you can only use it in one place. Wally:…

> Facebook’s currency may not expire or be limited to one place, but it does seem to me that “it does the same thing [as money], only not as well.”

I don't know but each time I try to show my cash into the computer... nothing happen.

Libra does the same thing as "Paypal" would be more fitting, but then you forget that not everyone can use Paypal and that's where your logic fail.

Venmo is always my best example for that, because I do have a Visa card, I do have a Paypal account. I'm in a developed country, thus I don't have issues to do transactions online. I still wouldn't be able to use Venmo though. If you were to only accept my transaction from Venmo, because you didn't like Visa and Paypal (yeah I know Venmo is owned by Paypal but you understands the point). Now imagine this world, but without any of theses.

- Anyone can own a Libra wallet, me, you, someone in the middle of a third world country.

- Anyone can transfer from a Libra wallet, to another, me, you, someone in the middle of a third world country included.

That means that anyone can arbitrage values of Libra, anywhere in the world, whether Visa, Mastercard or Paypal decide that market worth it or not.

Thus, anyone can pay using Libra, which make Paypal, "the same thing [as Libra], only not as well."

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#249

Post by dwild »

maxlybbert wrote: post #246
thefounder wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can't send physical money over optical/copper cables, can you?

Personally, I believe PayPal, Western Union, banks, etc. have come up with decent ways to send money electronically.

> Personally

That's the whole issue. You forget about everyone else that don't have access to Paypal or Western Union, or even wire transfer.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#250

Post by ilaksh »

runeks wrote: post #25

The reason for Bitcoin’s design is precisely because a centralized/pegged alternative was tried and failed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecash Facebook’s currency is not a successor of Bitcoin, it’s an inferior reincarnation of a failed predecessor.

David Marcus is a Sith Lord. https://github.com/libra/libra/issues/41
Post reply on HN