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The CIA Spied on People Through Their Smart TVs, Leaked Documents Reveal (2017)

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Re: The CIA Spied on People Through Their Smart TVs, Leaked Documents Reveal (2017)

#61

Post by ggg2 »

discordance wrote: post #57
ei8htyfi5e wrote: post #45

I gave a talk in China 5 years warning about this. http://tech.qq.com/a/20140527/035512.htm I asked vendors to make changes to their products, such as planned obsolescence so if the manufacturer goes out of business and a device doesn't hear from the mother ship for awhile, all internet connections are killed for good. Also, to set smart defaults so that even when not configured, it won't allow this behavior. There s…

As long as this sort of planned obsolescence only kills the connectivity feature, and keeps the rest of the device functioning/useable that sounds good

except they will be (very) easy pickings for malware that do their own thing. e.g. Mirai botnet.

it's very backward to suggest planned obsolescence as a security feature instead of open software/standards

Re: The CIA Spied on People Through Their Smart TVs, Leaked Documents Reveal (2017)

#63

Post by astazangasta »

celim307 wrote: post #49
penagwin wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for whether or not they're telling the truth, I don't know; Luckily it's possible to check [0]! Although it gets a bit more complicated and can change, my understanding is that currently most people observe it increase it's network usage after it's trigger phrase, but not at other times (it uses the network for other stuff too, but audio data is typically rather large in comparison). [0] https://www.iot-tests.or…

The pessimist in me think that a determined actor could simply capture non-trigger voice data offline, and bundle it with the rest of the traffic whenever the next trigger word occurs. But I am talking out my ass and have in no way verified any of this

This was my thought too; there doesn't seem to be a way to verify this isn't happening.

Re: The CIA Spied on People Through Their Smart TVs, Leaked Documents Reveal (2017)

#64

Post by xkcd-sucks »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #35
morpheuskafka wrote: post #11

The CIA should be completely abolished. Unlike the FBI, it does not seek to enforce any laws whatsoever; instead, they operate with absolutely zero oversight, there only rule being that they're not supposed to be involved in domestic matters. I wouldn't be surprised if they tag-team with other friendly agencies like MI6 to spy on each other's domestic targets so as not to violate that rule.

> they operate with absolutely zero oversight There is extensive oversight of the CIA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Com... > there[sic] only rule being that they're not supposed to be involved in domestic matters There are extensive rules, law, regulations, and executive orders governing the CIA. Many are listed or referenced in this document. https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/privacy-and-civi…

But when have these laws been enforced? When have any CIA leaders suffered the consequences of breaking these laws? What impartial party is in a position to determine that the CIA is in compliance with the law? What recourse is available when it's proven that law has been violated?

Re: The CIA Spied on People Through Their Smart TVs, Leaked Documents Reveal (2017)

#65

Post by astazangasta »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #11

The CIA should be completely abolished. Unlike the FBI, it does not seek to enforce any laws whatsoever; instead, they operate with absolutely zero oversight, there only rule being that they're not supposed to be involved in domestic matters. I wouldn't be surprised if they tag-team with other friendly agencies like MI6 to spy on each other's domestic targets so as not to violate that rule.

I have been reading Tim Weiner's excellent "Legacy of Ashes", a history of the CIA. Everyone should read it; it won a national book award and is generally well-researched and sourced.

What it indicates is that the CIA is essentially a long-running unconstitutional operation, and that every president since WWII has made use of the CIA to conduct covert actions in foreign countries that are entirely illegal, including operations like subverting elections, deposing governments, assassinating foreign leaders, running drugs, and more. Every President should basically have been impeached for running these covert actions, the Constitution has no authority for the President to wage undeclared wars and conduct hostile actions whenever they feel like it.

There is another branch of the CIA that conducts intelligence analysis; there might be some room for this half of the CIA, but this function has always been secondary, and has the problematic history of constantly tailoring what it says to satisfy the political demands of the President or Pentagon.

We'd be better to replace the CIA with a new agency, one which doesn't conduct covert action, and whose mandate is to make public intelligence assessments (because the public needs to be informed of these things in a democracy) rather than secret ones. The clandestine nature of the service should disappear entirely.

Re: The CIA Spied on People Through Their Smart TVs, Leaked Documents Reveal (2017)

#66

Post by astazangasta »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #35
morpheuskafka wrote: post #11

The CIA should be completely abolished. Unlike the FBI, it does not seek to enforce any laws whatsoever; instead, they operate with absolutely zero oversight, there only rule being that they're not supposed to be involved in domestic matters. I wouldn't be surprised if they tag-team with other friendly agencies like MI6 to spy on each other's domestic targets so as not to violate that rule.

> they operate with absolutely zero oversight There is extensive oversight of the CIA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Com... > there[sic] only rule being that they're not supposed to be involved in domestic matters There are extensive rules, law, regulations, and executive orders governing the CIA. Many are listed or referenced in this document. https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/privacy-and-civi…

The oversight is a joke. The CIA tortured people throughout its history, including following 9/11; what oversight did they face as a result? What were the consequences? More funding for running their drone program?

Re: The CIA Spied on People Through Their Smart TVs, Leaked Documents Reveal (2017)

#67

Post by WillPostForFood »

astazangasta wrote: post #66
WillPostForFood wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they operate with absolutely zero oversight There is extensive oversight of the CIA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Com... > there[sic] only rule being that they're not supposed to be involved in domestic matters There are extensive rules, law, regulations, and executive orders governing the CIA. Many are listed or referenced in this document. https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/privacy-and-civi…

The oversight is a joke. The CIA tortured people throughout its history, including following 9/11; what oversight did they face as a result? What were the consequences? More funding for running their drone program?

Torture was the official policy of the government. Oversight wasn't the problem, it wasn't rogue CIA black ops. Don't confuse lack of oversight with policies you don't like.

Re: The CIA Spied on People Through Their Smart TVs, Leaked Documents Reveal (2017)

#68

Post by WillPostForFood »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #64
WillPostForFood wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they operate with absolutely zero oversight There is extensive oversight of the CIA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Com... > there[sic] only rule being that they're not supposed to be involved in domestic matters There are extensive rules, law, regulations, and executive orders governing the CIA. Many are listed or referenced in this document. https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/privacy-and-civi…

But when have these laws been enforced? When have any CIA leaders suffered the consequences of breaking these laws? What impartial party is in a position to determine that the CIA is in compliance with the law? What recourse is available when it's proven that law has been violated?

You are begging the question. What laws have been broken? Which CIA leader should have been charged? Nobody is impartial, but you have Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee who seem pretty hostile to the CIA who can fill that role.

The last big CIA scandal was Iran/Contra, and four from the CIA ended up indicted: Joseph Fernandez, Alan Fiers, Duane Clarridge, and Clair George. The CIA director, William Casey, probably would have been indicted but died.

Re: The CIA Spied on People Through Their Smart TVs, Leaked Documents Reveal (2017)

#69

Post by noelsusman »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #68
xkcd-sucks wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when have these laws been enforced? When have any CIA leaders suffered the consequences of breaking these laws? What impartial party is in a position to determine that the CIA is in compliance with the law? What recourse is available when it's proven that law has been violated?

You are begging the question. What laws have been broken? Which CIA leader should have been charged? Nobody is impartial, but you have Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee who seem pretty hostile to the CIA who can fill that role. The last big CIA scandal was Iran/Contra, and four from the CIA ended up indicted: Joseph Fernandez, Alan Fiers, Duane Clarridge, and Clair George. The CIA director, William Casey…

The last big CIA scandal was the Bush torture program, and nobody was indicted over that. They even burned tapes of the interrogations as part of a coverup and saw no consequences for it.

Re: The CIA Spied on People Through Their Smart TVs, Leaked Documents Reveal (2017)

#70

Post by tptacek »

noelsusman wrote: post #69
WillPostForFood wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are begging the question. What laws have been broken? Which CIA leader should have been charged? Nobody is impartial, but you have Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee who seem pretty hostile to the CIA who can fill that role. The last big CIA scandal was Iran/Contra, and four from the CIA ended up indicted: Joseph Fernandez, Alan Fiers, Duane Clarridge, and Clair George. The CIA director, William Casey…

The last big CIA scandal was the Bush torture program, and nobody was indicted over that. They even burned tapes of the interrogations as part of a coverup and saw no consequences for it.

You could see "abolishing" the CIA by name and replacing it with a new agency over the Bush torture program, and the failure to cut through the legal morass erected to protect the authors of the torture program --- a lasting shame for the CIA and the nation --- would certainly justify that.

But there's no possibility of abolishing the function of intelligence analysis and clandestine service, nor should you want there to be: net-net, the CIA might in fact prevent more armed conflicts than it contributes to, and in any case no major power will ever unilaterally disarm.

Against all that, you have a 70-year legacy of people putting their lives on the line for the agency, which abolition/rebranding would likely be seen as sullying (further than the torture program already has).

It's not going to happen.

I echo the other commenters on this thread who suggest that we might want to think harder about holding Congress and our Presidents responsible for how they've overseen and directed the CIA.

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