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Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

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Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#231

Post by rdiddly »

pessimizer wrote: post #201
rdiddly wrote: post #70

I can grasp the idea that Facebook would want to capture more payments like WeChat does; what I can't figure is how having their own cryptocurrency would add anything. Whom does it appeal to? I doubt Facebook wants the drug dealer/money launderer market segment for example. (I also doubt it'll be secure or anonymous enough to satisfy those people.) And it's no good for speculators, if it's pegged. Seems like at best…

> When the boomers combined "white music" with "black music" they got rock and roll. Irrelevant, but this is not a thing that happened. More accurately, when white people started playing black rock and roll, they also continued to develop rock and roll, alongside and in combination with black people (and other people.) Also, this is pre-boomer.

Well yeah, obviously it didn't literally happen. I knew someone would object. When you play something you heard someone else play, it is going to sound partly like their work, and partly like you, unavoidably being you. That is what I meant; it was a shorthand meant to save us this tedious excursion. Chuck Berry tried to sound like Pat Boone. The Beatles tried to sound like Chuck Berry. And so on unto infinity.

How about this: Two races whose artists had theretofore not collaborated much artistically due to an artificial separation (segregation), started to come into closer contact, in the context of the civil rights movement, new sound recording/reproduction technology, and a burgeoning youth population, and began to influence and imitate each other; and like a boulder rolling down from an unstable perch, managed to release a lot of energy. I know I know... no such thing happened!

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#232

Post by thefounder »

dralley wrote: post #117
thecupisblue wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're using cryptocurrency because - off the top of my head in no particular order: 1. Hype 2. It gives "credibility" to their currency 3. they can be regulated as a crypto-currency that way. 4. It enables faster transactions and reactions to the transaction states than regular currency. 5. It locks the users in to their partners because it's more friction to get money. 6. Easier to obtain the data on how users spe…

>It enables faster transactions and reactions to the transaction states than regular currency. This is only true in the US, where the inter-bank financial system runs on mainframes and 40 year old code. The British banking system decided a while ago that they were going to update their bank communication system, and now they can send sums between bank accounts at different banks within 10 seconds.

I believe there is a similar pan-european system so instant payments are a reality in Europe/EU.

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2018/html/ecb.pr1811...

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#233

Post by thefounder »

thecupisblue wrote: post #164
dralley wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It enables faster transactions and reactions to the transaction states than regular currency. This is only true in the US, where the inter-bank financial system runs on mainframes and 40 year old code. The British banking system decided a while ago that they were going to update their bank communication system, and now they can send sums between bank accounts at different banks within 10 seconds.

Also in the EU. Transactions halt at 3 or 5 PM between different banks and don't happen on the weekends AFAIK. At least from what I know from using regular banks.

Depends by the bank you use. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2018/html/ecb.pr1811...

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#234

Post by tomc1985 »

EthanHeilman wrote: post #161
tomc1985 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure. Sure you can prevent one party changing the data in the DB but the decentralized model seems to carry a lot more risk. I can't wait for the day when todays encryption can be cracked by tomorrow's commodity hardware...

>Sure you can prevent one party changing the data in the DB but the decentralized model seems to carry a lot more risk. Lets say you have 7 permissioned nodes that are running a BFT protocol to establish a shared DB. I'd be interested to hear why?

While I was originally thinking about the finance space and not the technicals of shared DBs themselves, I feel like N nodes introduces a weakest-link problem where one trusted actor subverts the rest. A hypothetically perfect BFT protocol would prevent this, I suppose, but I know nothing about them or their current state today.

Are the resources guarding those seven nodes equally proportioned? How hard is it for a bad actor to potentially subvert one and cause it to pass bad-but-trusted data? Can these nodes be switched with other, potentially less-secure or hostile nodes? How are additional nodes added to the network; is there a credentialing process that could potentially be attacked? Who maintains each node, what is their level of sophistication, resourcing, and control?

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#236

Post by kerng »

buboard wrote: post #157
root_axis wrote: post #83

I think Facebook's reputation will be enough to relegate this thing to the ash heap. The only people who are going to be interested in Facebook coins are some subset of cryptocurrency enthusiast who can find value in moving their cryptocurrency into a coin that will have more onramps to spendable money. For everyone else, it's going to be viewed as yet another digital money app you have to hook up to your bank accoun…

Facebook is trusted by billions of people every day. I would trust them with a crypto wallet more than any of the crypto exchanges that have been hacked in the past.

Given Facebook's security history, I would assume the private key being stored in cleartext in log files and so on... I'm not sure why one would trust Facebook more?

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#237

Post by kerng »

buboard wrote: post #190
root_axis wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/09/50-mi...

Well no, facebook has pretty good security. 50 Mil stolen credentials in 15 years out of what is probably more than ten billion accounts is nothing.

Normalization of Deviance at its finest- 50 million (and over time and aggregated its been way more) is not something to be proud of, rather the opposite CSO, maybe even CEO should have resigned for how frequent they have breaches and "bugs".

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#238

Post by kerng »

jrvxo wrote: post #114
root_axis wrote: post #83

I think Facebook's reputation will be enough to relegate this thing to the ash heap. The only people who are going to be interested in Facebook coins are some subset of cryptocurrency enthusiast who can find value in moving their cryptocurrency into a coin that will have more onramps to spendable money. For everyone else, it's going to be viewed as yet another digital money app you have to hook up to your bank accoun…

Facebook's reputation outside HN is not bad. In fact I'd argue that in undeveloped countries it's pretty, pretty good.

I'm not sure about that... 3 of my friends have quit Facebook last few months because of the company's reputation.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#239

Post by panarky »

nostrademons wrote: post #121
runeks wrote: post #25

The reason for Bitcoin’s design is precisely because a centralized/pegged alternative was tried and failed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecash Facebook’s currency is not a successor of Bitcoin, it’s an inferior reincarnation of a failed predecessor.

The surrounding context around an idea is always changing. Facebook itself was tried many times with various degrees of success (MySpace; Friendster; LiveJournal; Classmates.com; Xanga; EZBoards; AOL; Usenet; fingerd; BBSes; etc.), but it took a new and relatively trusting generation getting online and being packed onto dense college campuses to make it take off. I personally think that Facebook's cryptocurrency will…

> strong possibility of it succeeding in the developing world and failing in the developed world

It could work pretty well in the developed world, too, if transactions are instant and cheaper than credit cards or PayPal.

But whether it succeeds or fails as a payment system has nothing to do with any blockchain tech, or whether they call it a cryptocurrency.

This is not a competitor to Bitcoin, because it cannot be what Bitcoin is -- open, borderless, neutral, censorship-resistant, and public.

Maybe it will be better at buying coffee than Bitcoin. I couldn't care less, because buying coffee isn't the purpose of Bitcoin.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#240

Post by ivalm »

411mrc wrote: post #207
ivalm wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because to claim that bitcoin succeeded as a payment/salary method is ridiculous. Vast majority of bitcoin volume is just speculation on exchanges. The massive price volatility is a testament to why it cannot be used as a currency -- who would want to make a services/job contract that in a matter of a year could change its value by an order of magnitude. The whole point of these contracts is to hedge against future v…

You're arguing for a demurrage currency, not a fiat, debt- leveraged fractional reserve one.

I am arguing against bitcoin, not for something. I definitely am not arguing for fiat.
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