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World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

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Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#111
post #46

We just moved and needed to buy some new kitchenware. You would not believe how difficult it is to find so much as a spoon that is not made in China. Even from any name brand, even in a "fancy" store like Williams-Sonoma.

Cutipol is Portuguese. Liberty Table Top still manufactures in the US.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#112
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are notable exception to this in most industries, but it’s got to be a hard path to walk. Somewhat amusingly, most people’s favourite brands tend to be the more quality ones, if my circle is anything to go by (which is a trap). If it’s what they buy is a whole different thing.

> A step further, it seems most people's favourite brands tend to be ones which were high quality in the past. Its a rare situation where that quality continues as mass market appeal arrives. Yes, I think this is a typical brand lifecycle. Somewhat niche brand gets famous due to high quality and appealing image. Brand gets bought by big group, with a lot of expertise in distribution and marketing. Quality goes downhi…

I was just reading the book "The House of Morgan" and it describes how companies are purchased when they don't maximize short term profit. The bankers and executives make sure that they make millions in the transfer, and then the brand is cheapened to get more profit, usually at the expense of the customers and employees, and then the company is sold again to get more millions for the executives and bankers. They don't really care if the company goes under or they destroy society as a side effect - it is all about making more millions for the already rich principals.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And you'd never encounter a product that smells formaldehyde with an OEKO-TEX label. These guys will put lead in children's toys but would never be so unscrupulous as to put a fake label on the product? Or lie to obtain certification?

I don't know about manufacturing. But for food products people get prosecuted all the time by trading standards. My friend who works for them has a lot of interesting stories to tell. One story, she visited a local pub and asked for a dairy free ploughman's, the waiter asked if she would like butter on her bread. My friend waited for it to be added, then she put the whole meal, plate and all into a plastic bag and to…

I, err... don't know how to feel about this. Entrapment at its worst?

I'm all for labels, safety, and verification enabling people to be informed, consenting adults.

But if you asked to have butter on your toast, as an informed consenting adult, you get butter on your toast, and it ain't anybody's fault but your own. And I'm a liberal socialist pinkie commie Canadian, not even a redneck gun-tottin' libertarian :D

There must be / I hope there is something I'm missing from the story...?

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#114
post #94
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta be more targeted in your searches if that's what you care about. https://www.sherrillmfg.com/ https://www.globalkitchenjapan.com/collections/flatware-cutl...

Thank you. Looking Japanese stuff is a great idea. They are one of the few places to still keep some manufacturing "in-house." Searching is hard and companies are not always fully transparent about their process. E.g. "Assembled in the USA" for a frying pan could mean that the pan and handle are made in China, but riveted to each other in the USA. Sigh.

For nicer kitchenware, shy away from retail stores in general. Search out brands, find what nice restaurants are using - some fancy restaurants seek out small, artisanal manufacturers for sure.

I remember Jungsik had all dinnerware from Korean artisans. Nice stuff.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any tips on how you identify such items that are worth buying? Those tools sound like an amazing deal.

It's tougher than it looks. Especially so with newer Chinese made products actually adding lead weights inside their cheap plastic cases to make their cheap products feel as though they were cut from a heavier cloth. Some rules of thumb that I have when it comes to buying old power tools are: Does it look like something your grandfather might have owned? Is it of all metal construction? If not, are the plastics of a…

Also - keep in mind a lot of places you find these things they're _really_ cheap, so it's often perfectly fine to buy one that is _probably_ good, then pull it apart when you get home to check it's interior and construction. If you only dropped $5 at a thrift store, it doesn't hurt too much when you find its actually shitty plastic with a lump of rusty steel inside - and you just trow it out...

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a click bait title, especially since the last sentence in the article is "If America “decides to remove the 25% tariff, we will move the production back to China right away,” Tu said." Doesn't sound like the era of Made in China is over if they're itching to get back.

Made in China is over, that ship has sailed. - US recently declared China to be a dangerous competitor, - both parties are full-force anti-CCP. except maybe a few candidates like Joe Biden - Taiwan view China as dangerous as well - Way cheaper labors exists in SE asia

what's anti-CCP?

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#117
post #8

I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes. However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics. And with cost reduction comes…

Particularly I miss low-spec, high quality items. I want a good laptop for writing, it has to be only powerful enough to run emacs and a browser. but it has to survive being trashed around and the battery must be available 10 years from now for replacement. Good luck finding that kind of product...

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#118

If you know the bicycle industry, what's interesting is that Giant started out as a Taiwanese based manufacturer, and is probably going to go back there for some things. And to other places like Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia. They are actually not very much different from the top ten largest Taiwanese motherboard makers. All the motherboards used to be made in Taiwan (Hsin-Chu City, etc). For lower labor cos…

Even the parts still made in Taiwan are often made by imported labor, last time I visited a bike factory, many signs were _only_ in thai. Taiwanese labor is just too expensive to hit the margins targets US bike manufacturers are looking for. It looks like the shift that's been happening toward SE Asia will just accelerate.

a large number of taiwan based AC-to-DC and DC/DC power supply manufacturers (Delta, Zippy, etc) have opened factories in Thailand. If you look at the ATX power supplies sold on newegg for instance, there's about 60 different brand names, actually manufactured by about 12 different companies. I'd say at least half of those have moved manufacturing outside of mainland china because they have better labor/cost of operations opportunities elsewhere in developing parts of southeast asia.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any robots yet that can weld bicycle frames? I thought that was still a job for humans...

This is actually weird to me. It seemed like it should be possible to stamp out bicycle frames like a car, so I researched it. Such a bike does exist, but is extremely expensive, which seems to defeat the purpose. Is it really not possible to streamline the manufacturing beyond welded tubes?

Not an expert but stamped parts are pretty weak from some angles, but perhaps you meant cold forged which is how aluminum bicycle cranks and some other parts are made - pressed using 100,000 pounds (or some big number depending on material) of pressure, this of course only works for mostly solid items. There is a huge cost in making a cold forge and a limited number of times a mold can be used before a new mold has to be made due to wear and tear. Frame quantities in the exact same shape are not that big, though, manufacturers do seem to come up with new models every few years. Making a frame from a solid piece of metal would make it very heavy increasing the material costs substantially, and counterintuitively - weaker than a tube for this application - there is a strength from the shape of a tube that a solid piece of the same metal does not have and if my memory serves right, the larger the inner radius, the greater the strength (of course you can make a tube so thin the first mishap with a vector in the wrong direction crushes it, but that's a different problem). I recall there being a magnesium frame that was a one piece thing a long time ago.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#120
post #8

I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes. However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics. And with cost reduction comes…

>Sadly, it's all about price. This is the problem, but not how you are stating it. If CEO's didn't make 300x the lowest paid employee, and "shareholders didn't demand" exponential growth quarter after quarter, then the price to be 'Not made in China' would be reasonable. Fix these problems then the damages caused by seeking "cheapest possible AND cheaper" would be non-existant. *NB: I am a shareholder. I want my inve…

I think it's more complex than that. It's not _just_ the CEO and investors greed. People's time in "1st world countries" is more expensive because _everything_ is more expensive. There's pretty much no manufacturing left here in Australia, because the wages on offer for "factory jobs" can't pay rent or buy food in Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane. And if you _did_ pay your "factory workers" in Australian cities enough to rent/buy a home there, your base assembly costs start out at more that the manufactured-and-delivered price for the same item from China. Automation will help fix one end of that problem (the cost to manufacure side), but will make the other end worse (even fewer jobs for lesser skilled workers).

I don't _like_ that fact that global economies and inexpensive shipping have made arbitrage of inequity a real business profit driver. But the reality is that a bunch of people in China are prepared to work in factories making widgets for less money than anybody in Australia - and moving shipping containers full of widgets is _way_ less expensive than the difference.

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