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We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

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Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#131

Post by NewsAware »

busymom0 wrote: post #30
HeavenFox wrote: post #19

May I say the title should be taken with a grain of salt. From the article: > A month before being removed from the App Store, the app raked in ~$45,000 in revenue. This means the product was operating at a $500,000 annual run rate. It's an extrapolation, from the first month.

That plus they are talking about extrapolated "revenue". They didn't mention what the server costs were for having to handle the traffic of that many users. Server costs for such would be pretty high. Also other operating costs, development costs etc. Revenue doesn't matter, profit does.

For a b2c app usually it is neither server cost nor Dev time being the main cost drivers but cpi campaigns. So you should have a way lower profit margin here than someone just looking at tech expenses might intuitively expect.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#132

Post by lacampbell »

krapht wrote: post #96
lacampbell wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many false friends with French and English. I really don't have the heart to tell my colleagues in France that 'Unicity' - which they named a whole big project after - isn't a word...

Huh? Seems like a word, linked below. https://www.thefreedictionary.com/unicity

TIL! It's must be a fairly obscure one though. My English speaking colleagues and I had never heard of it, and it's not here https://www.dictionary.com/misspelling?term=unicity

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#133

Post by megous »

scarface74 wrote: post #128
megous wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Most useful APIs will allow access to some data/data source. The whole point of computing is to work with interesting data and process it somehow. It's up to the user whether he allows the app to both access interesting data and the network, or only allows the apps that can work with the data locally. Also, this API would be much less sensitive than allowing apps to access contacts list, or whatever, for which t…

The application in question had access to all of your communications going to the internet from your device. The whole purpose of computing is not to have access to all of your private information and to analyze it and sell it to third parties. They even admitted that their business model was fashioned after Onava’s that did just that and was bought by Facebook.

I was talking about Apple providing api to get information about screen time of other apps, so that these kinds of monitoring apps don't need such hacks.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#134

Post by scarface74 »

megous wrote: post #133
scarface74 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The application in question had access to all of your communications going to the internet from your device. The whole purpose of computing is not to have access to all of your private information and to analyze it and sell it to third parties. They even admitted that their business model was fashioned after Onava’s that did just that and was bought by Facebook.

I was talking about Apple providing api to get information about screen time of other apps, so that these kinds of monitoring apps don't need such hacks.

This is also why Facebook bought Onava. Even without access via a VPN, that would have been enough information for Facebook to know that people were spending a lot of time on WhatsApp and to know that it was becoming popular. Would you be okay with that?

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#135

Post by panopticon »

megous wrote: post #127
panopticon wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the novel uses for such an API don't outweigh the costs. Even if Apple did provide such an API, the app in question also blocked access to social media apps via the VPN. My head would explode if Apple allowed apps to exercise direct control over others apps in such a fashion.

Sorry, I don't see it. If some app blocks access to other apps, when you don't want it, you simlpy uninstall it.

If that answer was adequate, Apple wouldn't have to audit apps to ensure they're not abusing the contacts permission.

The potential for abuse and erosion of user trust seems orders of magnitude larger than the apps we are missing out on by not having such an API.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#136

Post by Causality1 »

scarface74 wrote: post #129
Causality1 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. There are several examples from years back where Apple copied an app and then removed it from the app store, but this isn't one of those times.

So you care to give such an example?

Camera+ and its VolumeSnap feature, f.lux and the Night Shift feature, Finder for locating your Air Pods, Coolpixel and screen recording. All of these apps offered features that were later integrated into iOS or other Apple offerings. Apple went so far as to send a demand letter to the f.lux devs demanding they stop offering the app for sideloading.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#137

Post by scarface74 »

chronial wrote: post #115
busymom0 wrote: post #49

This is some super click bait and borderline deceitful blog. Apps on iOS are sandboxed so you can't access data about other app's launch and usage. These apps were using MDM profiles to get that usage data. This also meant that the user's internet data was going through these third parties which is a pretty big privacy issue. Plus having MDM profiles gave these third parties enormous access to the user's device setti…

My understanding is that they were providing a VPN that did the tracking and blocking, without gaining any access to the actual device. I don't see how this article is related to MDM profiles or Apple's press release. Am I missing something?

One of the points was that it was designed to stop you from “opening an app” based on certain criteria. The only way you can do that is with MDM on iOS.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#138

Post by megous »

panopticon wrote: post #135
megous wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't see it. If some app blocks access to other apps, when you don't want it, you simlpy uninstall it.

If that answer was adequate, Apple wouldn't have to audit apps to ensure they're not abusing the contacts permission. The potential for abuse and erosion of user trust seems orders of magnitude larger than the apps we are missing out on by not having such an API.

I was writing specifically about (potential) app blocking API.

I'm not sure what user trust you're talking about, though. Apple allowed shady VPN tracking/blocking apps in the past and users used them.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#139

Post by panopticon »

megous wrote: post #138
panopticon wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that answer was adequate, Apple wouldn't have to audit apps to ensure they're not abusing the contacts permission. The potential for abuse and erosion of user trust seems orders of magnitude larger than the apps we are missing out on by not having such an API.

I was writing specifically about (potential) app blocking API. I'm not sure what user trust you're talking about, though. Apple allowed shady VPN tracking/blocking apps in the past and users used them.

I was responding generally about either API; my thoughts are similar.

My position is one of a cost/benefit ratio. VPNs have a lot of good use cases (enterprise networking, privacy from shady networks, etc) that outweigh the potential for harm.

Good use cases for apps exercising control over others are screen time monitors and parental controls? Maybe I’m being unimaginative, but that’s a narrow band of functionality better served by OS-level features.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#140

Post by em-bee »

mirimir wrote: post #108
busymom0 wrote: post #49

This is some super click bait and borderline deceitful blog. Apps on iOS are sandboxed so you can't access data about other app's launch and usage. These apps were using MDM profiles to get that usage data. This also meant that the user's internet data was going through these third parties which is a pretty big privacy issue. Plus having MDM profiles gave these third parties enormous access to the user's device setti…

Yeah, that jumped out at me too. > We could set up a VPN service and analyze the traffic passing through our servers to learn which social media services mobile devices were communicating with, and using this data we could estimate the time spent on different services and block access to them when users exceeded their self-determined limits. I mean, I use VPN services all the time. But doing that for an app to track…

if it's done with the express consent of the user and the data is not sold, i don't see the problem. it's only a matter of who i trust with my usage data. if it's not the vpn, then it's my isp.

but, wouldn't a local 'fake' vpn be enough to capture all that locally on the phone? there is no need to send traffic to a remote server for this purpose. or does apple not allow that? it works fine on android.

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