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Why are we so pessimistic?

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Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#21

Post by graeme »

maxxxxx wrote: post #9
graeme wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think society as a whole is rather optimistic on climate change: currently we aren’t even trying to solve it policy wise. If we were more pessimistic, we would take preventative measures seriously. “Everyone believes the future will be worse and it’s not possible to avoid it” is a strawman, I think.

"I actually think society as a whole is rather optimistic on climate change: currently we aren’t even trying to solve it policy wise. " I think a lot of people have given up.

I know Canadian opinion polls best. Here, less than 20% of people identify climate change/environment as a top priority, and support for a carbon tax is about 45%, with a bit less than that opposed.

Granted, the polls don’t measure apathy, but this doesn’t strike me as a society that is convinced climate change is a pressing problem. We’re more mildly concerned, and mildly supportive of policies aimed addressing it, even in a very limited way.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4811385/ottawas-unpublished-inter...

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#22

Post by thrower123 »

edraferi wrote: post #17
Swizec wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems we are close to a tipping point where we may lose what semblance we had of a democracy. Oh please. I grew up in a post-communist European country. You guys are doing great! Keep it up.

That’s exactly the problem though. Post-Soviet states money-bombing our politics out from underneath us. We know where that leads and don’t want it at all. Unfortunately they’re good at it so it’s taking time to vote our way out of the mess.

The Russian propaganda canard is worrying, because it is this thought-terminator that prevents considering that there are actual people with real reasons for voting the way that they do.

Are the Russian spy agencies conducting propaganda? Of course they are. Are they the reason Trump was elected, or people voted for Brexit, or the Yellow Vests are marching in Paris? Hell no.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#23

Post by sonnyblarney »

It's more than news; it's everything else as well.

Even the music.

Go ahead and listen to pop music from any previous area - there is a lot of happy music, and a lot of slower tempo, beautiful music.

'Beautiful' stopped being cool in the 1990's, since then everything has to be trounced in some kind of faux-noir or whatever.

Even sad songs by Simon and Garfunkel are beautiful, honest.

Even the slightly cheezy soft rock like Air Supply, Chicago ... it was relaxing in a way.

Even the music was upbeat was still positive: 'Jump' by Van Halen' - a ridiculously rubbish but positive song, almost child-like.

Even the unconentious pop music of today lacks a kind of naivte.

It's in lyrics, timbre, instrumentation, production, presentation - everything.

My all time favourite band - Radiohead - is kind of guilty of this. They just can't be happy, now matter what. They must be dour. Have you ever seen an interview or video with Thom Yorke just clowning around the the lads, laughing, enjoying himself, not really caring about much at all? It's 'not their brand'.

Spend a day listening to music any time before the 1990's, especially the slower tempo stuff (of any genre, big band classical), and it changes your demeanour.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#25

Post by yters »

If we look at history on the large scale, it seems things have generally gone upwards: health, wealth, and liberty. That being said, the upward trend means even greater dips occur than were possible in the past. So, the general optimistic trend of history is countered by the previously unimaginable horrors of the 20th century made possible by our great progress.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#26

Post by oblib »

mbfg wrote: post #7

If you've always lived in a society where things are generally bad then it's likely that at present times things are getting better even if only slightly. On the other hand if you're living in places that have generally always been good, it's likely that things are starting to regress. Given that most of the people who comment about such things on social media and otherwise or likely from the latter camp, it's not su…

I can agree that the rhetoric and division is heated right now to levels near what it was in the mid `60s - early `70s but I don't think we're as close to that tipping point as some might feel. By the mid 70s things calmed down a lot.

It feels to me like we peaked in the year after Trump was elected and things have been easing since. I'm basing this mostly on my FB feed but I think it's a fairly good barometer to gauge it because I live in an area where 76% voted for Trump. They were riled up when they did that.

My right leaning neighbors are posting near as many anti-liberal memes, almost no flat out lies about "liberals", and not much at all about Trump. This past year I started asking them to "make a list of things Trump has done that is good for us." and none, not one, has taken me up on that. Not even the "Wall" has been offered as an example.

This doesn't mean most won't vote for him again, but it probably does mean not as many will vote. They're not as motivated as they were in `16. Not as feisty. And they don't have near the disdain for Bernie, or even Biden, as they still have for Hillary. They really do not like her.

I have not heard a single one of them support Trump saying that he should get more than two terms or be appointed "President for Life". Right now almost none of them are posting anything at all about Trump. In fact, they haven't worked up a good outrage since the Kavanaugh hearings.

Very few of my FB friends trust the big Corporate Network News anymore on either side. They're all producing to much "Opinion" which is blatantly one sided and they all focus on the same "News of the hour" stories.

The result is the level of awareness of bias in those "News" reports has increased a lot the past couple of years and overall people are beginning to ignore it more now than they are to react with passion.

It was getting scary for awhile there though.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#27

Post by koube »

thrower123 wrote: post #22
edraferi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s exactly the problem though. Post-Soviet states money-bombing our politics out from underneath us. We know where that leads and don’t want it at all. Unfortunately they’re good at it so it’s taking time to vote our way out of the mess.

The Russian propaganda canard is worrying, because it is this thought-terminator that prevents considering that there are actual people with real reasons for voting the way that they do. Are the Russian spy agencies conducting propaganda? Of course they are. Are they the reason Trump was elected, or people voted for Brexit, or the Yellow Vests are marching in Paris? Hell no.

With how close the election was, it's a very short jump to conclude that hacking the emails of both the party and campaign of one side successfully directed the narrative enough to flip the election. You can easily see here that Russian cyberattacks were effective in washing out any message by the target candidate: https://news.gallup.com/poll/195596/email-dominates-american...

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#29

Post by SomeOldThrow »

graeme wrote: post #5
Negitivefrags wrote: post #4

I believe that pessimism is the greatest crisis facing humanity today. Yes, that includes climate change. It's just not possible for a civilization to make progress if everyone believes that the future will be worse and it's not possible to avoid it.

I actually think society as a whole is rather optimistic on climate change: currently we aren’t even trying to solve it policy wise. If we were more pessimistic, we would take preventative measures seriously. “Everyone believes the future will be worse and it’s not possible to avoid it” is a strawman, I think.

Global warming is a thread the needle problem: people need to be worried enough to act, but not to give up. Collective action is the ONLY way through this.

Last year ABC news gave more air time to the new royal baby in a single week than they gave to climate collapse in a year. You may feel inundated with pessimism, but that is far from universal. (Source: https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2019/05/21/ABC-News-spent-...)

I think optimism/pessimism is the wrong axis for this. It should be complacency/activism. I think MLK’s Letter from Birmingham Jail is more apt than ever.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#30

Post by oblib »

Swizec wrote: post #20
edraferi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s exactly the problem though. Post-Soviet states money-bombing our politics out from underneath us. We know where that leads and don’t want it at all. Unfortunately they’re good at it so it’s taking time to vote our way out of the mess.

The ability to vote your way out of this mess is pretty much the exact opposite of losing democracy.

Yep. Learning to sift truth from noise is the key to making that work and I think we're all getting better at that now than we were in 2016.
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