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Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

motorauthority.com

811–820 of 974 posts

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the CR-V they didn't. The entertainment system is an underpowered Android tablet. Lots of questionable decisions like the keyless lock system not locking if the tailgate was closing as you walk away, there being no way to turn the car off but leave the radio or AC on, and the engine cutting out as you try to drive off if you started it via remote start.

Your "no way to turn the car off but leave the radio or AC on" complaint doesn't make sense to me, as the AC compressor is powered by the engine's accessory drive belt, which won't turn if the engine's off. Otherwise, those sound like fair complaints. I'd add that Honda tried to go to a touch-based volume control in 2015/2016 and it was universally panned for its poor responsiveness and requirement that users take th…

I imagine the fan could still work?

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#812

Removing touch screens from the driver is a good one but there are so many distracting UI patterns for drivers. The scary thing is that I would bet people have died because of poor patterns that exist. These are some that I have: 1. Using Apple iPhone for navigation. Phone rings. I pick it up using car controls. The navigation screen is now gone and is replaced with the phone screen. [scramble to swipe bottom of phon…

Count me in, too. I'm an embedded systems developer/electrical engineer with considerable automotive experience. Contorting myself under dashboards isn't as much fun as it used to be, but I'll do it if I can make a difference.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Rolls doesn't have a touch screen, which is nice because it helps from distracting my driver during trips to the yacht club or the occasional polo match.

This comment seems so weird - it's just a European brand - not a rich one. Alfa Romeo is nowhere near the price of a Rolls. The most expensive Alfa (their halo car) is a third of the price of the cheapest Rolls without any options. Ford makes a more expensive car than Alfa.

Alpha Romeo is an Italian luxury brand in the U.S. Ford in the same sentence is shocking.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want choice and flexibility, don't live in a walled garden.

But it's such a well-manicured, aromatic walled garden!

And the fence is machined out of a single piece of aluminium!

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#815
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world of musical instruments went through this decades ago. Yamaha DX7, one of the best-selling synths of all time, didn't have any knobs or sliders to edit its sounds. People loved the sounds, but editing them was so hard that few musicians did - that's why you can hear many DX7 stock presets in 80's music. The 90's were the dark ages of the synth. Even the buttons went away, everything was in a menu now. The sy…

I agree with the gist of your comment, but the revival of synths with lots of single purpose knobs and sliders started much earlier than the 2010s. Clavia Nordlead and Roland jp 8000 are two examples of mid-'90 synths. I would say I that the demand started with the birth of house and other electronic dance music.

I agree with your correction, all I can say is that I still don't feel like I can afford a Nord Lead, and the Monologue and Microbrute are $300 :)

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#816
post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Superior to what? Superior to everything else that ever came before and that currently exists. It is the ultimate user interface to ever be developed? Surely I hope not. But I love the iPad because it’s flat and glassy, not despite it.

But I love the iPad because it’s flat and glassy, not despite it. Really? Your kitchen counter and car windshield are also both flat and glassy. Are you sure you don't love the iPad because it's a huge touchscreen controlled by software with virtually limitless capabilities, rather than because it's flat and glassy? Superior to everything else that ever came before and that currently exists. That's my point about you…

Yes, I love the computing device because all that it presents is a solid slab of glossy glass. If it tried to present any other affordance it would be all the lesser for it.

If the rant is supposed to be about the future, then IMO it spends too much time disparaging the present. I think it’s a stupid and pointless rant if the premise is “this isn’t the best it will get.” Duh? That’s like the ultimate straw-man.

But obviously the point of the rhetoric which I originally took issue with is stronger than simply “this is super awesome and amazing but we will eventually do better”.

Rhetoric like “permanent numbness” or claiming the experience has “no connection whatsoever with the task you were performing” is inaccurate aside from being hyperbolic.

In fact I’m comfortable stating that I’ve never felt more connected with or immersed in a map than on a sleek multi-touch display. Additional controls around the screen which I would have to move my hand to manipulate, or an attempt to shoehorn a haptic interface into that — honestly I believe it would only serve to mediate and therefore dampen the connection between user and map.

A globe is haptic. But a globe lacks the affordances of multi-touch zooming. A digital globe that allowed zooming and panning, maybe even with a dynamic physical structure to represent topography, that would be fucking cool, but hardly portable. And so single purpose as to be a novelty.

The beauty of picture behind glass is how adaptable it is to any arbitrary task and how easily it can be reshaped and reformed, and new interaction modalities invented on the glass surface which are joyful and useful and efficient.

Haptic interfaces lock you in, they dictate function based on their form, they provide fixed manipulation points which can not rearrange to best suit the task at hand. As such, haptic interfaces given our current constraints on material science are often inferior and frustrating. Particularly for tasks which require dynamically adaptive coarseness and dynamic range of inputs, such as navigation.

Haptics are particularly difficult to allow users to manipulate interfaces through varying levels of acceleration and jerk, whereas the glass surface excels at this. Faster swipes, slower swipes, flicks, jabs, back and forth movements, and that’s all just one finger.

A click button is a one dimensional interaction point. Rarely is there a “click” affordance which measures harder or softer, except on “glass” type touchpoints.

The scroll wheels in the TM3 steering wheel is a great example of haptics striving to achieve this. The scrollwheel is awesome for fine grain incrementing and decrementing. But it’s also awesome because it has a “flick” mode where if you flick it fast the behavior changes in an interesting way!

For the right hand wheel, single clicks up and down increase and decrease cruise speed in 1 mph or kph increments. But a fast flick up or down (which may actually rotate the wheel 3 or 4 or 5 click points — who knows?) will move the cruise speed up to the next closest 5mph/kph increment (not up by exactly 5mph unless you were already divisible by 5).

This is a very neat HCI trick to provide a more usable scroll wheel. First, the fact that the wheel has click-points at approximately every 15 degrees (and the exact number of clicks per rotation is crucial based on the particular task!) rather than a smooth flowing wheel, translates naturally to integer changes in state.

Second, that it does have some concept of coarse vs fine-grained adjustments through the altered behavior when you flick it (likely triggered by at least 3 rapid clicks). But this all had to be very carefully designed into the hardware and firmware to make it all work for this particular task.

Third, because the particular task at hand doesn’t have a large dynamic range in the scale of the adjustments that need to be made. Rarely am I cruising at 20mph and then quickly find I want to be cruising at 80mph, or else the wheel would be terribly frustrating!

This is why trying to use the wheel (or really any haptic control) to pan or zoom a map is an exercise in total frustration. I know because that’s how my wife’s Mercedes tries to do it. Because sometimes I want to zoom out from a scale of 1mi on screen to 100mi on screen for a trip overview, and sometimes I just want to zoom from 1mi to 1.3mi to see the next turn. There are no obvious integer set-points to allow a haptic interface to lock on to, and the GPS interfaces which impose them tend to suck. The fact that I can’t directly address any arbitrary XY coordinate on the screen instantly compounds the frustration.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world of musical instruments went through this decades ago. Yamaha DX7, one of the best-selling synths of all time, didn't have any knobs or sliders to edit its sounds. People loved the sounds, but editing them was so hard that few musicians did - that's why you can hear many DX7 stock presets in 80's music. The 90's were the dark ages of the synth. Even the buttons went away, everything was in a menu now. The sy…

The DX7 had one slider. If it had had knobs, it would have been much bigger and much more expensive. And it wouldn't have been much easier to program, because it used a novel form of sound generation which most people still find hopelessly unintuitive. A Germany company made a programming box for the DX7 with one-knob-per-feature. It was very expensive and sold very badly, even among professionals who could easily af…

While there's no doubt many find FM synthesis hard, I disagree that the interface didn't make it way harder than it needs to be.

I am absolutely in love with the Yamaha Reface DX that I have, and greatly enjoy editing and the real-time controls over the parameters that it offers with its mere 4 touch sliders.

I think the direct control boxes didn't sell well because not enough keyboardists grokked FM well enough to mess with the sound live (and didn't expect to learn) -- and also because nobody loves add-on boxes. A better UI, I think would change things. Again, that's a lot of what makes the Reface DX fun.

In any case, perhaps the DX is not the best example here. A better example would be the many 90-s and early 2000-s synths, which were all about menus and you couldn't do anything immediately.

(Microkorg would also fall into that category, its knobs are deceptive: what each knob does depends on the value of two or so others knobs. It's menus but without screens. And it's a VA synth - no reason it couldn't be more like Roland Gaia which is one-knob-per-parameter).

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world of musical instruments went through this decades ago. Yamaha DX7, one of the best-selling synths of all time, didn't have any knobs or sliders to edit its sounds. People loved the sounds, but editing them was so hard that few musicians did - that's why you can hear many DX7 stock presets in 80's music. The 90's were the dark ages of the synth. Even the buttons went away, everything was in a menu now. The sy…

I learned synths back in the 80s with wall-sized panels of knobs, switches, and patch cords. I loved it. It was Direct Manipulation. I could do anything to anything directly and instantly. I hated synths in the 90s. All interaction was funneled through a tiny screen. I called it "building a ship in a bottle." Now several manufacturers have brought back knobs (and even patch cords!) and it's a much better situation.

>I hated synths in the 90s. All interaction was funneled through a tiny screen. I called it "building a ship in a bottle."

I fully agree with your comment, and just wanted to say thanks for the metaphor :) I'm absolutely stealing it.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#819
post #672
post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than touchscreen, though, especially when moving (only doing it as a passenger, of course!)

Having used both, I vastly prefer the touchscreen. The rotary input takes way longer to navigate to the next letter, and it's easier to make mistakes (e.g. accidentally switching modes) and it's harder to fix them (need to cycle all the way to the end to hit backspace, sometimes having to start from scratch if your mistake was "jump out of input mode")

I've tried Android Auto in a Sonata with touch screen, and Passat and a Q5 with rotary controller. The latter were far easier to use, once you've spent 5 minutes making sure you understand how it works.

Maybe if the touch screen were Tesla-sized it would have been easier to use, but on a regular sized screen, even switching modes takes much more attention with a touch screen, because you need to look at it, move your hand to it, make sure you're hitting the correct location, wait until it registers,m make sure you've actually hit the right spot. With a rotary it was "slide down, no need to look because it clicks, click or two clockwise (still no need to look), push down, quick glance that you're on the right screen, click clock- or counterclock-wise to select what you need. Much safer and easier, and you're not going to hit a wrong thing because you drove over a bump.

For entering addresses a large touch screen is nicer, but then a keyboard is even better, but since you're only supposed to do that while parked, so hitting a wrong button shouldn't be a big problem.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#820
post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the web industry, we kill ourselves to make every color combination fully ADA compliant (in the US) I've never found that to be true.

What exactly? Have you ever dealt with a designer, or old websites with no concept of ADA/WCAG? Because I do, daily and it's ...difficult (to put it lightly) I don't work for Facebook, or Google, I work for small businesses, many of which are still battling to become PCI compliant, or GDPR compliant, or even getting a privacy policy posted. The pain is real.

What I mean is that the sites don't care and don't bother.
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