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Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

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Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#201
post #70

I can grasp the idea that Facebook would want to capture more payments like WeChat does; what I can't figure is how having their own cryptocurrency would add anything. Whom does it appeal to? I doubt Facebook wants the drug dealer/money launderer market segment for example. (I also doubt it'll be secure or anonymous enough to satisfy those people.) And it's no good for speculators, if it's pegged. Seems like at best…

> When the boomers combined "white music" with "black music" they got rock and roll.

Irrelevant, but this is not a thing that happened. More accurately, when white people started playing black rock and roll, they also continued to develop rock and roll, alongside and in combination with black people (and other people.) Also, this is pre-boomer.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#202

This appears to be: 1. Pegged to USD 2. Controlled by a central entity 3. Tied to a social media account So it has very little to do with currencies like bitcoin (it certainly violates the spirit of them, even if it chooses to reproduce some of the morphology), but they are IMO associating it with cryptocurrencies for publicity and more importantly in the hope of avoiding regulation by confounding regulators for long…

When it comes to the financial system, the thing that gets most companies is regulation. As much as these tech companies want to play bank, they just don't have the right skillset to navigate the complexity of regulations across multiple regions. Finance's problem isn't tech. People assume the issue with a banks payment system is the fact that it runs on some mainframe running Cobol. False. The main problem is that the payment and settlements network is established and works well enough that there's really little actual value in investing any further to upgrade it. Many banks did jump on the bandwagon of blockchain, hoping it might solve some of the challenges of inter-bank settlements, but it hasn't panned out the way they thought (basically think back-office employees who do much of the settlement verification being replaced or automated away). Facebook has less than a percentage point of a chance of upending current payment networks. Even starting from today it would take them at least 20 years to effectively build up the competence to navigate the politics and regulation of our current financial system. Do you remember the hype surrounding Zucks day infront of congress? Guess what...that happens almost annually for a bank and it never makes the news. Forget the well established lobby banks have that FB and other tech companies don't even come close to achieving.

Visa is doing the smart thing and investing in this as it will probably find some traction given FB's reach, but poses almost no real threat to Visa in anyway. Personal and Commercial banks' main business isn't really payments, but rather loans. They offer payments since they already have a well established settlements network and serve as gatekeepers to the financial system.

I'd love to see where this goes, but I have a really hard time believing that this will grow beyond anything but another FB digital currency. There's a fundamental aspect of currency where it's tied to a government as well as a country and it's world dominance. There's a reason the USD is the reserve currency of the world, and yet another reason the government is the owner of the USD. Bitcoin at least tried to challenge this dominance. FB isn't even thinking like that clearly. They have another play in mind, and frankly it's not entirely clear what it is.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#203
post #197
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Libra whitepaper is supposed to debut this month, so I guess we'll see to what extent it's a true cryptocurrency. I wish Libra was building on an Ethereum scaling technology, like Plasma, but most likely it's a new standalone proof-of-authority blockchain where the validators are the hundred companies investing $10M each. In terms of the sliding scale between centralized and decentralized, Ethereum v1 and Bitcoin…

In practice the Bitcoin and Ethereum hashrate is controlled by far fewer than 100 mining pools.

Do you think there's a way to prevent this gradual centralisation of mining that we see in so many PoW chains?

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#204
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice the Bitcoin and Ethereum hashrate is controlled by far fewer than 100 mining pools.

Do you think there's a way to prevent this gradual centralisation of mining that we see in so many PoW chains?

There's p2pool and various proposals to let miners (not pools) produce blocks so that pools would just handle payouts. But once you fix pools you might discover that there are still less than 100 data centers doing the mining which is probably due to geographical electricity costs and economy of scale, neither of which can really be fixed.

Farther afield you have stuff like Chia's proof of empty disk space or of course PoS.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well no, facebook has pretty good security. 50 Mil stolen credentials in 15 years out of what is probably more than ten billion accounts is nothing.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/millions-facebook-user-records-... I'm guessing your response will be that it wasn't Facebook's fault. I would also note that there aren't even 10 billion people living on earth, so it sounds like you're just making stuff up.

you 'll notice in that article that it wasn't facebook's servers that were breached. Also facebook has probably way more accounts than humans, i think just recently they deleted 3 billion fake ones. Regardless, imho from many years working with their platform, they do take security seriously and they ve helped to popularize methods for securing accounts and passwords.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin has not failed. I know several people personally that are paid in it. They can also use it to buy things.

And when they buy things, are those things denominated in fiat currency or in bitcoin?

At this point, it's a feature to have things denominated in $. I'm likely going to buy a Purism laptop with bitcoin, but of course denominated in $. I spent a couple hundred on BTC years ago, which has generated a nice return. This will be my first purchase, and I'll have plenty of BTC left over. Holding a deflationary currency while the world operates on an inflationary one is fine by me.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#207
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would love to know why I was downvoted

Because to claim that bitcoin succeeded as a payment/salary method is ridiculous. Vast majority of bitcoin volume is just speculation on exchanges. The massive price volatility is a testament to why it cannot be used as a currency -- who would want to make a services/job contract that in a matter of a year could change its value by an order of magnitude. The whole point of these contracts is to hedge against future v…

You're arguing for a demurrage currency, not a fiat, debt- leveraged fractional reserve one.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#208

I think Facebook's reputation will be enough to relegate this thing to the ash heap. The only people who are going to be interested in Facebook coins are some subset of cryptocurrency enthusiast who can find value in moving their cryptocurrency into a coin that will have more onramps to spendable money. For everyone else, it's going to be viewed as yet another digital money app you have to hook up to your bank accoun…

You are severely over estimating the integrity of cryptocurrency enthusiasts. Some of the most highly valued "cryptocurrencies" today are centralized tokens handled by companies with worst reputations than Facebook (XRP, EOS, Tron, ...), yet people do buy and use them. If anything the communities from these tokens might flock en masse to Facebook coin.

And if Facebook actually manages to pull off a system where they can't be compelled to freeze accounts, it might also steal the user base from those traditional payment apps.

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who decides what's a legitimate fork? There have already been several forks, some of which maintain trading value.

The first part is consensus. The most supported one maintains the original name. The second part is support and use. Even though other forks have a cost, does not mean they are legitimate. I'm not sure if you've heard of Craig Wright, Calvin Ayre, and Roger Ver, but they are majority holders of these forks and control supply and therefore price. I will not go into a huge lengthy discussion about this here, if you Goo…

Where exactly is any of this defined in the bitcoin protocol? The real bitcoin isn’t made by particular people that you don’t like? I thought all that mattered was the code and now we have unelected random people deciding which code is good for me to use and which is bad?

Re: Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency: Privacy and stability concerns

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not arbitrary, but they're not razor-thin, either. If we take a quick look at profit margins (net income over revenue) for 2017 as a proxy for fees relative to service costs, Visa was something like 36%, which is pretty good (for context, Google's is ~22%, Apple's is also ~22%, Citigroup is ~25%, Mastercard ~31%, Paypal ~13%, Facebook is just under 40%). It would definitely be a big shift from the "support" t…

What these financial conglomerate accountants report on their SEC filings are not the same margins that they have on payment processing. For example, much of that margin could be on interest for credit debt or Adwords CPC. It's a massive stretch to compare the two. Again, I would be highly suspect of Facebook if they charged less than the industry standard, especially if they don't explain how they cut costs for risk…

I think risk management could be a lot cheaper. Phones are data rich compared to mag stripe cards. No card can provide GPS history.
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