An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#101

Post by bayareanative » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 3:16 AM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #49

scarface74 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you tightly regulate the “pharma space” and those drugs are harder to get, the same addicts will just find a substitute drug. The “War on Drugs” has been an abysmal failure. If you lock up the users, you’re just spending more money housing non violent offenders. If you lock up the sellers, someone else will take their place. Homeless drug addicts don’t fear jail, how could it be any worse than life on the stre…

If heroin were freely available (it costs almost nothing to produce), heroin addicts could be productive members of society, and would have nothing to fear in seeking treatment. Nodding is the only thing dangerous about heroin addicts who have access to heroin, everything else is a symptom of prohibition. Additionally, long-term heroin addicts who have a consistent supply don't really nod much, or for long. It's the…

Portugal found a solution: treatment and decriminalization of all drugs. Prohibition never addresses a social ill, except it helps the prison-military-congressional-industrial complex $$$. Prohibition and "tough on crime" are Nixon's solution to political enemies and Reagan uncaring, absence of Golden Rule what they don't wish to understand about others outside of their limited/sheltered experience.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#102

Post by lazyasciiart » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 3:41 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #93

kerkeslager wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current state of homelessness in Seattle sucks for everyone. Regular citizens of the city are rightfully getting fed up by the lack of progress. That’s important because the only way we can solve it is with the support of the public. Attacking me isn’t doing anything to help. Okay, yes, we need the support of the public. But if we get the support of the public by appealing to the self-centered fear of people wh…

The homeless are not driven to a few small areas, I already explained that. I’m also not advocating for doing that, please stop insinuating that I am. The homelessness problem in Seattle is very much something I see in person every day all over the city. You may not understand the nature of Seattle homelessness from New York or from a newspaper article from San Diego. Housing the homeless is an important step and is…

I live in Seattle and I think you're wildly exaggerating to the point where you are sharing an inaccurate story.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#103

Post by mindisblown5545 » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 3:48 AM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #52

scarface74 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you tightly regulate the “pharma space” and those drugs are harder to get, the same addicts will just find a substitute drug. The “War on Drugs” has been an abysmal failure. If you lock up the users, you’re just spending more money housing non violent offenders. If you lock up the sellers, someone else will take their place. Homeless drug addicts don’t fear jail, how could it be any worse than life on the stre…

I think a big part of it is the decline in social structures and lack of meaning in many people's life. Happy people with a meaningful life are much less likely to take drugs.

This is the problem. This is the core problem. This is the reason, even with intervention, rehab, psychiatry, access to modern "tools", substance addiction is so hard to fight. This is why the "War on Drugs" has been a failure. All these comments address symptoms.

Can someone give their reason as to down voting this comment?

There have been numerous articles posted here as of late relating to loneliness, suicide rates, etc. What do you need to see the bigger picture? I don't understand why this is so difficult. I feel like there must be some ideology in the way here or maybe politics or cognitive dissonance. I mean you could have just ignored the comment if you were in ambivalent disagreement.

Having worked in social services for 14 years it has become clear to me that social support, ie healthy family structures, friends and coworkers, as well as having a meaningful reason to get out of bed in the morning are the most important factors when it comes to overcoming addiction. I'm not aware of much research regarding this aspect of treatment. All I can say to that is that I have a very paranoid and pessimistic view as to why.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#104

Post by ajmurmann » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 5:16 AM UTC

mindisblown5545 wrote: post #103

ajmurmann wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big part of it is the decline in social structures and lack of meaning in many people's life. Happy people with a meaningful life are much less likely to take drugs.

This is the problem. This is the core problem. This is the reason, even with intervention, rehab, psychiatry, access to modern "tools", substance addiction is so hard to fight. This is why the "War on Drugs" has been a failure. All these comments address symptoms. Can someone give their reason as to down voting this comment? There have been numerous articles posted here as of late relating to loneliness, suicide rate…

There is research that confirms this. Johann Hari talks quite a bit about it in his interview with Sam Harris:https://samharris.org/podcasts/142-addiction-depression-mean...

Most famous is probably the Rat Park study: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park

Blaming the drugs is an easy out and probably is more pleasing to people coming from a puritan world view.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#105

Post by krageon » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 9:49 AM UTC

seltzered_ wrote: post #12

I think the question to ask is what created the opioid problem in the first place - I tend to think it's lack of regulation in the pharma space. I've criticised the author (Chris Rufo, associated with the conservative and intelligent design group Discovery Institute) in his earlier pieces (see https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/acwqng/podcast_s... ) where he used seemingly incomplete estimates on the funding…

> I tend to think it's lack of regulation in the pharma space.

Maybe it's time we start acknowledging that perhaps the environment is at least partially to blame for individual problems. Why are people staying with drugs that they hate? Could it be that there are societal issues which keep them from becoming mentally well enough to combat their other problems?

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#106

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 12:14 PM UTC

mindisblown5545 wrote: post #103

ajmurmann wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big part of it is the decline in social structures and lack of meaning in many people's life. Happy people with a meaningful life are much less likely to take drugs.

This is the problem. This is the core problem. This is the reason, even with intervention, rehab, psychiatry, access to modern "tools", substance addiction is so hard to fight. This is why the "War on Drugs" has been a failure. All these comments address symptoms. Can someone give their reason as to down voting this comment? There have been numerous articles posted here as of late relating to loneliness, suicide rate…

Can someone give their reason as to down voting this comment?

I didn’t downvote the parent, but the idea that only unhappy people use drugs isn’t true. Maybe if you limit it to hard drugs or maybe if you limit to “abusing drugs”? I have no strong opinions.

Alcohol and marijuana are both drugs, plenty of happy people drink and smoke weed. On the other hand, plenty of opioid addicts started taking the drug legally because of a real pain and then got addicted.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#107

Post by ajmurmann » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #106

mindisblown5545 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the problem. This is the core problem. This is the reason, even with intervention, rehab, psychiatry, access to modern "tools", substance addiction is so hard to fight. This is why the "War on Drugs" has been a failure. All these comments address symptoms. Can someone give their reason as to down voting this comment? There have been numerous articles posted here as of late relating to loneliness, suicide rate…

Can someone give their reason as to down voting this comment? I didn’t downvote the parent, but the idea that only unhappy people use drugs isn’t true. Maybe if you limit it to hard drugs or maybe if you limit to “abusing drugs”? I have no strong opinions. Alcohol and marijuana are both drugs, plenty of happy people drink and smoke weed. On the other hand, plenty of opioid addicts started taking the drug legally beca…

Those aren't the users who end up homeless though. I know plenty of people who use Marijuana and alcohol, but it doesn't become a problem. I even have someone in my family who got addicted to opioids because it was overprescriped for treating pain. However, even that didn't turn into a major problem.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#108

Post by m0llusk » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 8:47 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #64

scarface74 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you tightly regulate the “pharma space” and those drugs are harder to get, the same addicts will just find a substitute drug. The “War on Drugs” has been an abysmal failure. If you lock up the users, you’re just spending more money housing non violent offenders. If you lock up the sellers, someone else will take their place. Homeless drug addicts don’t fear jail, how could it be any worse than life on the stre…

We are absolutely feeling the pain of a lack of social safety nets for all kinds of problems. Unpopular opinion: I’m ok putting non-violent people in jail when they break the law. We need reform in the jails and prisons, not more lenient sentencing. And because I’m sure it needs to be clarified, not every law breaker needs to go to jail immediately.

Results matter. Incarceration is great for satisfying a need for punishment and vengeance, but as correction it has been clearly demonstrated to make problems worse. Jails and prisons function as networks for criminals to connect and share and are extremely effective at promoting gang activity. If we want to deal with problems then we are going to have to stoop to the kind of methods that are used with medical care such as pledging to do no harm and using evidence based interventions.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#109

Post by mulmen » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 10:05 PM UTC

m0llusk wrote: post #108

mulmen wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are absolutely feeling the pain of a lack of social safety nets for all kinds of problems. Unpopular opinion: I’m ok putting non-violent people in jail when they break the law. We need reform in the jails and prisons, not more lenient sentencing. And because I’m sure it needs to be clarified, not every law breaker needs to go to jail immediately.

Results matter. Incarceration is great for satisfying a need for punishment and vengeance, but as correction it has been clearly demonstrated to make problems worse. Jails and prisons function as networks for criminals to connect and share and are extremely effective at promoting gang activity. If we want to deal with problems then we are going to have to stoop to the kind of methods that are used with medical care s…

I clarified in other comments but we also need reform in our jails and prisons. What we do today is just release people to the street which also doesn’t work.

The point is if you break the law the state should have the ability to force corrections.

I’m completely in support of reinventing what those corrections are.