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Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

latimes.com

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Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#71

Post by Baeocystin »

pen2l wrote: post #6

This might be a dumb question, but: why don't we do glass-style bottles? I live in America now, but when I used to live in Pakistan 20 years ago, I remember that I would buy pepsi or coki in a glass bottle... and if I wanted to buy a second one, I would go back to the store and give them the old empty bottle, and they would compensate me a few pennies for it -- and the bottle then is presumably washed and reused. It'…

A lot of people have commented about plastic just being cheaper, etc., but the core aspect is that glass is simply very heavy for the volume contained, and requires greater care when handling at all stages of the use process. Shipping all that extra weight has real carbon consequences as well.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#72

Post by protonfish »

rishav_sharan wrote: post #69

This is simply a political issue at this point. If there is political will, then we can ban all consumer plastic. We used to live fine without them 40 years ago. We can do so again. Damn the inconvenience. We must plug this at both source and disposal.

If you made a case that this would be better for the environment, which I have yet to see. Plastic waste is not toxic, nor does it use a lot of energy to produce.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#73

Post by arcticbull »

anon_cow1111 wrote: post #22
devoply wrote: post #5

Replace with glass and aluminum, with what's left over burn it. That way it has no way of creating any other problems in the future. If you are efficient with burning it you could even capture the greenhouse gasses produced as a result and sequester those.

As someone who rides a bicycle and hikes, glass bottles are the bane of my existence.

Are aluminum bottles problematic? Sigg makes some great ones.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#74

Post by Baeocystin »

tomc1985 wrote: post #4

Why can't the US develop domestic waste-processing capabilities? We could be generating power from incineration plants.

You could (at great expense) build an incineration plant that scrubbed its exhaust gasses of most pollutants, but CO2 remains the big issue. It is just plain better to bury it in properly-designed landfills.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#75

Post by cameronbrown »

protonfish wrote: post #72
rishav_sharan wrote: post #69

This is simply a political issue at this point. If there is political will, then we can ban all consumer plastic. We used to live fine without them 40 years ago. We can do so again. Damn the inconvenience. We must plug this at both source and disposal.

If you made a case that this would be better for the environment, which I have yet to see. Plastic waste is not toxic, nor does it use a lot of energy to produce.

Microplastics which are irremovable from the environment would beg to differ. Those are what need to be banned.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#76

Post by weberc2 »

cortesoft wrote: post #54

There is this strange belief that landfills are taking up a ton of space and we need to reduce landfill usage because of it. This is simply not true. Landfills don't take up much space, we have plenty.

This is pretty much what the environmentalists were preaching when I was growing up. Not sure why to be honest. In retrospect it certainly seems like "but the landfills!" is the lesser of all evils.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#77

Post by chewz »

butisaidsudo wrote: post #30

From what I understand, shipping containers are sent out from Asia stuffed with goods, but there isn't nearly as much going in the other direction. The containers need to go back whether they're full or not, which is why it ends up being so cheap to ship plastic. And the CO2 caused doesn't really change as a result. To the rest of your point though, I agree. My wife is a hardline recycler. I generally am too, but I h…

It is like ships carrying opium to China had to take Chinese porcelain as balast on the way back.

https://southchinaenvir.com/opium-dreams-speedy-clipper-ship...

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#78

Post by eschaton »

The fundamental problem here is that the cost paid for a good does not directly include the cost to reclaim and/or sequester it. That cost is externalized, and so it winds up seeking a local minima, with serious adverse effects on the total system. If these costs are incorporated, everyone’s incentives are aligned and solutions will be found.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#79

Post by Bakary »

opportune wrote: post #3

As far as I can understand it, the recycling industry is a well-intentioned waste of resources. It would be much better for the environment for all this waste to be sequestered in a landfill than for people to pay to ship it around the world only for most of it to be dumped or rejected (which, even when the Asian countries in question do accept it, they are likely to do anyway). These materials (plastics) are so chea…

A more prosaic explanation is that recycling is primarily aimed at removing garbage from the first world rather than environmental friendliness.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#80

Post by throw2016 »

Whenever it comes to issues of environmental concern there is always an 'authoritative' comment hand waving away objections and pretending to be on the side of 'science' but offering no scientific evidence, rationale or reasoning.

The entire comment essentially says 'nothing to see here' and positions any concern as 'unscientific' and overreaction.

You see this on HN every time in cases of nuclear power and the environment externalities. This may benefit people who make money from it but no one else and actively derails discussion and environmental concerns.

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