Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles • Hacker News Board

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#441

Post by neogodless » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 2:24 PM UTC

hrktb wrote: post #172

marapuru wrote: post #47

Praise to Mazda for making this decision. As a User Experience Professional, I was never able to grasp the true user's need for touch screens in cars. For years I have been working on product interfaces (not just apps). Many studies I conducted actually told me that people favored analog controls over digital touch screens controls. It gives you tactile feedback, making it accessible for anyone with sense of touch. >…

> As a User Experience Professional, I was never able to grasp the true user's need for touch screens in cars. For me there is two different scenarii for controlling the car: - while driving quick adjustments: volume up/volume down, temperature control, play/stop/skip music, start/stop navigation. All of those should be via easy to understand, direct access physical controls. - while parked (or by a passanger): navig…

In the 2015 Mazda I drive, they allow touch under 5 mph (I think?) But I installed Android Auto using third-party/open source software (and touch is always-on.)

By default on your phone, plugged into the car, you have to swipe/unlock Android Auto, but if you're parked, you can do that, and access your apps, including Google Maps. You can set your destination, and it immediately opens on the car screen. I'm completely fine with this model of interface - when parked, use your phone.

However, having said all that, if you still want to use a wheel, it's important they hit the right UI. In a BMW I rented, the way it only showed relevant letters while searching for an address (using the wheel) was pretty good and I was able to type in an address surprisingly quickly, even on my first time of using the software. Probably still not quite as quick as using a touch screen, but close enough.

I suspect that when you allow touchscreen as your fallback, it's harder to be "really good" about making a good wheel + button UI. It's too easy to lean on your crutch.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#442

Post by gerbilly » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 2:24 PM UTC

ken wrote: post #425

ubermonkey wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a User Experience Professional, I was never able to grasp the true user's need for touch screens in cars. Before phone integration, I might've agreed with you, or at least had no opinion on the subject. After watching many car companies, even high-end ones like BMW and Mercedes, fail utterly at producing reasonable phone integration systems or interfaces, though, I'm all-in on CarPlay. >It basically means they ha…

> CarPlay is amazingly good As someone who recently rode in a car with CarPlay and saw two young technology professionals try to use it, I disagree. One of them owned the system and drove it every day it still didn't seem like either one really understood it ("Why's it doing that?" "Maybe because ..."). I agree that all the built-in systems I've seen are terrible, but CarPlay seems like merely the "least bad" impleme…

Why is carplay even a thing?

Geez, can't people stop fiddling with their phones?

They've become like a kind of soother, a techno nanny that people can't do without.

The sooner people put those things down, the better off we'll be.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#443

Post by rco8786 » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

bumby wrote: post #426

rco8786 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. My iPhone still has some tactile mechanisms also. But 99% of my interactions with it are via touch screen. That's what you're describing.

Sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule. The actual point was that when it comes to safety/critical functions, we still prefer those mechanical mechanisms. Unless you're flying or driving with your iPhone, I think the point still stands. I think the fact that safety critical fly-by-wire systems could operate without the mechanical interface yet designers choose to do so anyway underscores this point.

Sure, safety and precision critical mechanisms are still served better by controls with tactile feedback. I happily recognize that.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#444

Post by toss1 » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

Excellent decision for Mazda. They've been optimizing everything for years, tho a bit lagging with their electronics UI. The touchscreen was already disabled when rolling (faster than ~5mph), so losing it entirely is a step forward.

The touchscreen UI when driving is also a very bad design. Touchscreens have no tactile feedback, so require focused visual attention to operate, taking not only the mental focus away from the road environment, but also moving the eyes well away from the road so losing much of the peripheral vision that can 'save' the driver by noticing unexpected motion.

Even as a racer with training on shifting attention between road, traffic, mirrors, surround, & instruments, I've found that any attempt to put a complex phone UI in a car significantly degrades my driving performance. Don't take me wrong, I love having the Android Auto maps up on the screen of my new CX-5.

But, the usability, even using the knob, is a constant distraction, and I far too often find myself squandering far too many microseconds on the UI trying to adjust the map, when I should have switched focus back to the road. It is a genuine hazard, and I've got training to manage it, and still often fail.

The primary, and almost singular goal of any driving or piloting UI must be to reduce the driver's workload. ANY few microseconds squandered on hesitation about the desired operation of the UI or just figuring out it's current state can become deadly.

This is an entirely different goal and threat structure from any ordinary computer or mobile device UI/UX design. Anyone doing it must be fully retrained and reoriented towards these goals, and pursue them relentlessly.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#445

Post by natch » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

ubermonkey wrote: post #368

marapuru wrote: post #47

Praise to Mazda for making this decision. As a User Experience Professional, I was never able to grasp the true user's need for touch screens in cars. For years I have been working on product interfaces (not just apps). Many studies I conducted actually told me that people favored analog controls over digital touch screens controls. It gives you tactile feedback, making it accessible for anyone with sense of touch. >…

>As a User Experience Professional, I was never able to grasp the true user's need for touch screens in cars. Before phone integration, I might've agreed with you, or at least had no opinion on the subject. After watching many car companies, even high-end ones like BMW and Mercedes, fail utterly at producing reasonable phone integration systems or interfaces, though, I'm all-in on CarPlay. >It basically means they ha…

>The Tesla's all-touchscreen situation in particular seems like a terrible idea.

Don't knock it until you've tried it. First off, you are completely wrong about it being an all-touchscreen situation. There are plenty of physical controls. Many people like you form conclusions based on not knowing anything about the car other than what you are told by other people. Think for yourself. Take one for a test drive.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#446

Post by saltminer » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #306

ehnto wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't be doing anything like that while driving. Also if it's physical in any way you can build accurate muscle memory and know without looking that you have gone to the right spot. This is almost never the case with touch screens interfaces. There is no safe way to interface with a screen while driving. You are taking your eyes off the road, and your focus goes with it necessarily. The safest option is no sc…

I understand the thought, but in the real world this is counterproductive and dangerous. Some interfaces it’s pretty clear that they are best served by physical buttons, toggles, switched, etc. Blinkers, gear selector, volume, windows, for example. Some interfaces it’s equally clear that they are best served by touch. Text input through an on screen keyboard obviously beats a scroll wheel to select individual letters…

You seem to be equating touchscreens with safety and quality. These do not go hand in hand - the underlying system can be absolute crap with a touchscreen (remember old dedicated GPS units?), or they could be Tesla-equivalent but with a weird physical button input system.

> Sometimes that means interacting with the navigation interface while under way, whether it’s due to updating a route, checking for traffic, zooming in and out.

You shouldn't be fiddling with the navigation system while driving - you should do that while you're still in park. Even when I look down at my phone to see what lane I need to be in for a second, it's amazing how much distance passes when going at highway speeds. Unless you are using autopilot, it's dangerous to mess around with the map, and it's not that hard to pull over to do it, either.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#447

Post by natch » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

BanazirGalbasi wrote: post #394

CrazyStat wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most of us are used to being able to adjust the AC without looking, and that's only possible because there are physical controls we can feel. My Tesla allows me to adjust the AC without looking, using the scroll wheels built into the steering wheel.

Not sure if you're trying to support his point or refute it, but those scroll wheels are a great example of physical controls done right.

The person being replied to claimed falsely that it's an "all-touchscreen" UI so I would see it as a refutation. The Tesla UI is fantastic.

If there were an all-touchscreen UI (but there is not) yeah that would not be ideal as long as full self driving is not yet here.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#448

Post by PascLeRasc » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

kevinconroy wrote: post #355

zaroth wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, every single phone today is nothing but a “picture under glass” and, far from a paradigm of permanent numbness, humans are intimately connected to these devices they carry with them everywhere. Rant is the right way to describe this. Do you remember the first time you used a map on a smooth multi-touch screen? The joy of panning and zooming around, tapping to learn more about any particular point! I remember…

Even if it's a rant, it doesn't mean it's wrong. At CES a decade ago, I got to play with a touchscreen prototype that offered tactile feedback. Press a button and the screen would push back and/or buzz (it's been a while, hard to remember). What I do know is that it _felt_ like I was pushing on something, not just glass. At the time, it required a big area around it. Think ATM sized. For an ATM, it'd be awesome. I'd…

There's Apple's 3D Touch, which I think is pretty great but it seems like they're trying to phase it out. It'd be nice to have an iOS keyboard with some slight amount of tactile feedback - moving the cursor around with feedback feels pretty nice and makes navigation much easier than without it.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#449

Post by alistairSH » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

mstade wrote: post #393

alistairSH wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own two cars with CarPlay, one use a touchscreen (VW) and the other a rotary knob/button (BMW). I much prefer the knob - with the touchscreen, I have to focus on the screen for a longer period of time to make sure my finger hits the right spot. With the rotary knob, I still have to glance over, but only enough to ensure the correct "button" is highlighted. That feels less distracting to me. All that said, I try to…

This hits the sweet spot for me as well. I think CarPlay is the best all-screen interface I've seen, but having to touch the screen is borderline useless. Even the most minuscule bump in the road usually results in a miss-touch for me, whereas with a wheel as you say you can just glance at the screen, count the number of ticks you need to turn the wheel and be confident you'll get it right. When stopped I might use t…

I usually rent cars

It always make my day when a rental car has CarPlay. And a little sad when it doesn't. Mostly because cheap rentals rarely have their own sat-nav installed and being able to use the phone on an integrated screen/audio system is really nice.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#450

Post by izzydata » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 2:34 PM UTC

I hope this becomes more common. At least in sportier cars. I want some kind of tactile response that I can feel while driving so I can navigate a vehicles controls without ever taking my eyes off the road. I want physical buttons, knobs, dials and switches. If there is a display it should not be a touch display.

Hopefully I can find something of this sort to replace the 7" screen in my GT86.