Google To Invest Millions in Palestine • Hacker News Board

Re: Google To Invest Millions in Palestine

#31

Post by maxawaytoolong » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 8:52 PM UTC

cool-RR wrote: post #9

talbina wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder, why do you think there's no talent there? Do you think Google would have done some due diligence before hand?

I think there's no talent there because: 1. I never knew a Palestinian developer on any mailing list or other forum. 2. I never knew of any software or technological product developed in Palestine. 3. I never knew of any notable developer or software developed in ANY of the Muslim states in the middle east, and that's a huge evidence given that there are >100 million Muslims there.

The big Muslim countries in the middle east are kind of fucked one way or another. Iraq and Iran alone have more than 100 million of the Muslims in the area. You're not going to see a lot of hot startup action from war zones or autocratic regimes. Jordan is one of the most stable and open societies in the Middle East. A year ago, I worked with some programmers from Oman, and they were pretty good.

Re: Google To Invest Millions in Palestine

#32

Post by jacobmg » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 8:53 PM UTC

_pius wrote: post #24

jacobmg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is trolling. All you're doing is reciting your standard "Israel is evil occupier" routine typical of someone of a certain political bias. No sources or added incite. It is however a fact, that since a high percentage of suicide bombers came out of Palestinian territories when compared to other countries, it is accurate to imply that a different economic course could diminish the terrorist aspect of the Palestini…

Actually, you're the one trolling. The parent didn't say Israel is evil; he stated that Israel has taken actions that stifle Palestine. That is an objective fact and one that is separate from whether or not Israel is justified in doing so. You're going out of your way to project your opinions onto the commenter because he stated a fact. In short, you're doing precisely what you just accused the parent commenter of do…

He didn't say the word evil, but he characterized Israel as evil, which is just as bad.

>he stated that Israel has taken actions to stifle Palestine. That is an objective fact...

False, saying Israel takes actions to stifle the Palestinians implies the intent is to stifle, when the intent could just as easily be defensive and as minimally stifling as possible. Those are both opinions. endtime merely pointed out what is there for everyone to see: the Palestinian territories dedicated an uncommonly high percentage of their economic output to terrorist activities, regardless of if you think "they had to do it."

In short, the logic is clear, the amount of man hours dedicated to terrorist activities is objective, saying the Israelis intend to stifle the Palestinians is analysis.

Re: Google To Invest Millions in Palestine

#33

Post by _pius » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 8:57 PM UTC

jacobmg wrote: post #32

_pius wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, you're the one trolling. The parent didn't say Israel is evil; he stated that Israel has taken actions that stifle Palestine. That is an objective fact and one that is separate from whether or not Israel is justified in doing so. You're going out of your way to project your opinions onto the commenter because he stated a fact. In short, you're doing precisely what you just accused the parent commenter of do…

He didn't say the word evil, but he characterized Israel as evil, which is just as bad. >he stated that Israel has taken actions to stifle Palestine. That is an objective fact... False, saying Israel takes actions to stifle the Palestinians implies the intent is to stifle, when the intent could just as easily be defensive and as minimally stifling as possible. Those are both opinions. endtime merely pointed out what…

In short, the logic is clear, the amount of man hours dedicated to terrorist activities is objective, saying the Israelis intend to stifle the Palestinians is analysis.

Such a strawman ... I never said anything about Israel's intentions.

And frankly, you're being ridiculous. Whatever Israel's intentions are, blockades are stifling, putting fences through people's land is stifling. Are you really prepared to argue otherwise?

Again, it's your prerogative to argue that Israel is justified in their actions, but when you try to make it so that even stating facts is equivalent to attacking Israel, all you're doing is "stifling" debate.

By the way, the net effect of Israel's actions on Palestine's economy is objective as well. The idea that your side's pain is objective and everyone else's is "analysis" is ... unfortunate.

Re: Google To Invest Millions in Palestine

#34

Post by endtime » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 8:59 PM UTC

talbina wrote: post #5

endtime wrote: post #2

As someone with family in Israel and strong views on the ME conflict, I think this is great news. Anything which supports/encourages the Palestinians making their own lives better and producing stuff which doesn't explode is a good thing for everyone in the region. This sort of thing is how a viable Palestinian state is going to come about, if ever.

On the other hand, your government's policies have stifled Palestinians in both regions, in food, shelter, security, and basic medical care. It's kind of hard to produce anything when your house is demolished by bulldozers and your town's farm is burned. This sort of thing is how a viable Palestinian state is going to come about, if ever.

This is the kind of pointless, irrelevant, tired rhetoric that belongs on reddit. I really expected better of HN than to upvote this kind of comment.

Re: Google To Invest Millions in Palestine

#35

Post by jacobmg » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 9:00 PM UTC

jackowayed wrote: post #30

jacobmg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is trolling. All you're doing is reciting your standard "Israel is evil occupier" routine typical of someone of a certain political bias. No sources or added incite. It is however a fact, that since a high percentage of suicide bombers came out of Palestinian territories when compared to other countries, it is accurate to imply that a different economic course could diminish the terrorist aspect of the Palestini…

How is it trolling to point out that the Israeli government has made economic development in Palestine very difficult? I'm pretty neutral on the conflict as a whole (I'd need to know way more to have a real opinion), but I'm pretty certain I'm against the Israeli blockade of Gaza[1]. It's pretty hard to build stuff when you can't import cement, steel, or glass. And the food restrictions have contributed to malnutriti…

Because you side against the blockade because you either don't believe the Israeli reasons why the risk of not blockading are serious enough to warrant something as harsh as a blockade, or you just don't care about the consequences for the Israelis either way. The former is far more complicated than a casual observer could know offhand and the latter is obvious one-sidedness which speaks for itself. Take you're pick.

FYI: The food restrictions were never of a nature that would cause malnutrition, that is propaganda. If you know even a bit about the issue you know the Israelis have reasons for blockading construction material, so the question is if you are neutral, why you don't believe them.

Re: Google To Invest Millions in Palestine

#36

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 9:00 PM UTC

cool-RR wrote: post #13

talbina wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you're just not looking hard enough: http://arabcrunch.com/

I am sure they exist, but the fact I didn't hear of any cool ones says a lot. I never see a cool "Show HN" start-up which is from the Muslim middle-east. And to remind you, we are talking about the entire Muslim middle-east here, with >100 million people who live in relative wealth and comfort. But Google is investing in Palestine, who are only a few millions who live in poverty and danger.

> I am sure they exist, but the fact I didn't hear of any cool ones says a lot. I never see a cool "Show HN" start-up which is from the Muslim middle-east.

I'll bet you haven't heard from a lot of developers in Bangladesh either but they exist and are quite active. In their market, which HN is hardly a part of.

> But Google is investing in Palestine, who are only a few millions who live in poverty and danger.

Which makes it extra worthwhile, as a 'leveler' it has much bigger effect this way than it would have elsewhere.

Re: Google To Invest Millions in Palestine

#37

Post by endtime » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 9:02 PM UTC

gabea wrote: post #4

endtime wrote: post #2

As someone with family in Israel and strong views on the ME conflict, I think this is great news. Anything which supports/encourages the Palestinians making their own lives better and producing stuff which doesn't explode is a good thing for everyone in the region. This sort of thing is how a viable Palestinian state is going to come about, if ever.

I think that the part of your comment regarding "producing stuff which doesn't explode" is very unnecessary. Your level of bias is clearly evident here. Instead of trying to pull both sides together through the positiveness of such news you add fuel to the conflict. Having family in the region does not make your statement any more authoritative then it would for someone with family in Palestine. I hope you rethink yo…

I made no attempt to hide my position; I actually intended to make it quite clear. The point of my comment is that this isn't Google taking sides, and that this should be seen as a good thing by people on both sides of the conflict, to one of which I belong. That's why I mentioned having family there - not because I think it makes my opinion correct, just because I think it makes the perspective from which I'm coming that much clearer.

That said, the tone of equivocation you take is a great example of "pretending to be wise": http://lesswrong.com/lw/yp/pretending_to_be_wise/

Re: Google To Invest Millions in Palestine

#38

Post by VB6_Forever » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 9:05 PM UTC

Qz wrote: post #29

VB6_Forever wrote: post #21

From the story it seems they are investing €2 million. It doesn't seem like a lot but hopefully it will be just the start

€2 million may not seem like a lot in western nations, but typically third world countries have a much more favorable exchange rate of dollars/euros into local currency. All those charity ads on TV that talk about people surviving on less than $2 a day tend not to mention that $2 a day can buy you a lot of more stuff in other countries than in the US.

good point

Re: Google To Invest Millions in Palestine

#39

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 9:11 PM UTC

_pius wrote: post #33

jacobmg wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't say the word evil, but he characterized Israel as evil, which is just as bad. >he stated that Israel has taken actions to stifle Palestine. That is an objective fact... False, saying Israel takes actions to stifle the Palestinians implies the intent is to stifle, when the intent could just as easily be defensive and as minimally stifling as possible. Those are both opinions. endtime merely pointed out what…

In short, the logic is clear, the amount of man hours dedicated to terrorist activities is objective, saying the Israelis intend to stifle the Palestinians is analysis. Such a strawman ... I never said anything about Israel's intentions . And frankly, you're being ridiculous. Whatever Israel's intentions are, blockades are stifling, putting fences through people's land is stifling. Are you really prepared to argue ot…

[deleted]

Re: Google To Invest Millions in Palestine

#40

Post by jacobmg » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 9:14 PM UTC

_pius wrote: post #33

jacobmg wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't say the word evil, but he characterized Israel as evil, which is just as bad. >he stated that Israel has taken actions to stifle Palestine. That is an objective fact... False, saying Israel takes actions to stifle the Palestinians implies the intent is to stifle, when the intent could just as easily be defensive and as minimally stifling as possible. Those are both opinions. endtime merely pointed out what…

In short, the logic is clear, the amount of man hours dedicated to terrorist activities is objective, saying the Israelis intend to stifle the Palestinians is analysis. Such a strawman ... I never said anything about Israel's intentions . And frankly, you're being ridiculous. Whatever Israel's intentions are, blockades are stifling, putting fences through people's land is stifling. Are you really prepared to argue ot…

> blockades are stifling, putting fences through people's land is stifling. Are you really prepared to argue otherwise?

I never argued otherwise. It can be argued that Israel doesn't have a choice, for the reasons of self defense, but to implement security measures which happen to be harmful to the Palestinian economy, effectively absolving Israel of any responsibility of the economic effects and placing it on groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. The point is, talbina put the blame on Israel (implicitly), even though that's just typical one-sided analysis that adds nothing to the discussion.