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The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

economist.com

41–50 of 85 posts

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#43
(Crosspost from my comments at economist.com:)

Paul Halmos, a famous mathematician, was often approached by undergraduates who asked him if he thought they should go to grad school. He gave all of them the same advice: "No."

Now mind you, he was extremely enthusiastic about academia, and he would cheerfully encourage students who didn't immediately walk away, but insisted that they really wanted to do academic research.

I quit a well-paying job [added for HN: at a late-stage startup, no less] to slog through a difficult, low-paying PhD program and it was the best decision of my life. It was not a "practical" decision, certainly not for my earning prospects, but I wanted to do advanced research more badly than I wanted to do anything else.

The Ph.D. is designed to introduce you to the world of academic research and prepare you for a career as a professor. Full stop. I have no problem whatsoever with anyone who enters a Ph.D. program for any other reason, but they should not come with illusions about what they are getting into.

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#44

(Crosspost from my comments at economist.com:) Paul Halmos, a famous mathematician, was often approached by undergraduates who asked him if he thought they should go to grad school. He gave all of them the same advice: "No." Now mind you, he was extremely enthusiastic about academia, and he would cheerfully encourage students who didn't immediately walk away, but insisted that they really wanted to do academic resear…

The problem is that the people who are doing it to become a professor are playing a game that is stacked against them. And if/when you lose that game you're well behind your peers in opportunity cost (see my other post).

I know several brilliant scientists (postdocs and PhD students) from my time at Princeton who had / are having a very hard time finding an academic job. At some point even the purest motivations will succumb to feeling used in these circumstances.

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#45
I'm interested in doing a PhD and I'm not concerned if it doesn't increase my salary - I'm totally happy if it just opens some doors to work in interesting fields.

However - I am quite concerned that it may decrease my salary or even make me border line unemployable. Right now I have a good number of years experience in software development under my belt. I can search for jobs on any given day and find hundreds or even thousands of opportunities that I would be able to make a credible application for. I'm quite concerned that once I have a PhD many of these people would look at my PhD and turn me down as overqualified.

I'm curious if anyone with strong software skills has any experience in what the effect of a PhD is on employability?

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#46
It's the economist (which I like and often listen to and read), however doing a PhD, imho, is not about money. More extreme; if you are doing a PhD for the money, you are not really worthy. It's about getting an academic career, which means research, which means going hardcore deep into the things you value and are passionate about. It's about shaping your head to be a scientist, not a millionaire. If you do the work to become get a PhD, you know that you'll be in it for a long time and you do not belong to the 'normal workforce' or to the 'become rich people'. PhDs hardly ever become rich, nor do they particularly want to (at least not the ones I have met). In my experience a PhD doesn't make you more qualified for software related jobs than a MsC, probably less so actually. It's a different mindset; you are a scientist or you want a good, commercial job. You can have both, but don't whine if the effort of the study didn't pay off; it was not meant for that.

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#47
post #33

This article only take the money value of PhDs. It forgot the most important stuff in doing a PhD: Networking. Doing PhD is like doing SEO in the real world. First, you need to pay attention to your supervisor, select a good one, one ready to trust you and give you freedom of action. Second, grab a university where there is effectively budget for you to travel to conferences and meet people. Then, work hard and netwo…

Your experience is completely atypical.

Most PhD students -- at least the ones I know in the states and overseas -- spend most of their time in school trapped in a lab or office. A few make time to "network" with people outside the department, but most have to be forced to socialize with a broader audience than can be found at the weekly beer hour.

The far more common pattern for a PhD student is to spend years busting his/her ass in near-isolation to accomplish research goals and graduate, only to find that it's hard to get a job without real-world contacts. So you're absolutely correct in the sense that PhD students should be networking, but it just doesn't seem to happen very much in practice.

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#48
post #45

I'm interested in doing a PhD and I'm not concerned if it doesn't increase my salary - I'm totally happy if it just opens some doors to work in interesting fields. However - I am quite concerned that it may decrease my salary or even make me border line unemployable. Right now I have a good number of years experience in software development under my belt. I can search for jobs on any given day and find hundreds or ev…

I did a PhD after working in the web/software world for a few years. I'm now back in software, and the PhD doesn't seem to have done my employability any long-term damage. But of course there’s an opportunity cost.

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#49
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly my sentiments. I'm currently in a PhD program, but not because I intend to be in academia. I love the field I'm studying, and I just felt like doing it instead of joining the workforce. I'll probably learn a cool thing or two. Why not? There are a decent number of ding dongs in PhD programs too. The level of ding dong-ery doesn't seem to change wherever you go.

The answer to "why not?" is pretty simple: opportunity cost. I spent three years in a computational biology PhD program before getting an e-mail from a college friend looking for people to join a new startup (where I am now a co-founder). I enjoyed the research I was doing, but I asked myself: should I really spend three more years here toiling away at very cool but very obscure science just to purchase a lottery tic…

"should I really spend three more years here toiling away at very cool but very obscure science just to purchase a lottery ticket? Where if I lose the lottery (which is the most likely result by far) I will have languished in postdoc roles until I burnt out past my prime?"

Oh man, +1,000,000. As someone who made the other choice from the same position you were in, this is exactly the advice I give to any fresh-faced grad student who gets all glassy-eyed and weak-minded in the face of doing "cool research" for some wonk professor for years while letting the real world slide by in the background.

You don't realize it when you're 22, but you've only got so much irrational exuberance and tolerance for crazy work schedules in reserve. Once that phase of your life is gone, it's gone, and you'll never get it back. Also, your friends are all moving on, too: the people with whom you can do things like co-found companies won't be in the same risk-tolerance categories when you're finally done with your research-based vacation from life.

During the time I was getting a PhD, I missed out on the second-biggest technology wealth creation event of my lifetime. My best friends -- the guys with whom I'd want to found companies -- got older, married, and had children. They're not able to take risks like that now. The world is harder and more expensive.

Now I'm working in the technology industry anyway, and I look around the world and see younger guys who are VP or C-level roles, leading large teams, and otherwise further along on the career ladder. But I have a PhD.

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#50
post #47
post #33

This article only take the money value of PhDs. It forgot the most important stuff in doing a PhD: Networking. Doing PhD is like doing SEO in the real world. First, you need to pay attention to your supervisor, select a good one, one ready to trust you and give you freedom of action. Second, grab a university where there is effectively budget for you to travel to conferences and meet people. Then, work hard and netwo…

Your experience is completely atypical. Most PhD students -- at least the ones I know in the states and overseas -- spend most of their time in school trapped in a lab or office. A few make time to "network" with people outside the department, but most have to be forced to socialize with a broader audience than can be found at the weekly beer hour. The far more common pattern for a PhD student is to spend years busti…

So the PhD students you know don't go to conferences and the like? Odd.
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