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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

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Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#191
post #87
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? How does the average American profit from their existence on their daily lives?

Well if average American or for that matter anyone does not gain anything from Google, Amazon, Apple etc then it would be reasonable to say no one really gains from technological progress.

As if they are the only bearers of progress.

Not to mention that not all kinds of progress are good to mankind.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#192
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has a population 40 times higher, that's not really a fair comparison. Also: Nestle, Logitech? Just because they don't have shiny frontmen doesn't mean they aren't worthy. Google also has a large AI research department in Switzerland.

You might want to bear Nestle's corporate ethics in mind before touting them as something to be proud of.

Ah yes, Google and SpaceX are well known for their impeccable corporate ethics

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#193
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of living in relative terms, compared to average salaries, is actually rather low. Rents, food is all really expensive judging from the numbers, but you get to keep a larger amount. Switzlerland is expensive for tourists - but for citizens not so much.

So the starting salary for software developers in Switzerland is higher than that in the US?

Simple salary doesn't give the entire picture, though.

A doctor generally makes more in the US than, say, Norway. The Norwegian doctor, however, doesn't necessarily have a school loan since tuition isn't charged. If they live in a city, they don't need a vehicle, to pay health insurance, and their children's health care is free. The doctor gets maternity leave and they get paid sick leave if needed.

They probably pay a bit more tax, but it isn't crushing.

The entire life cost structure is simply different - without including some of these quality of life things in with the costs, it isn't a fair comparison.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#194
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's okay, you can sub most any country in Europe in, and still end up with a much more sane work culture than the US.

Many people (including myself), don't want a laid back work culture. I want to kill myself for the firm, and work as hard as humanly possible. I think I just derive the most happiness from working (though I do like drinking as well). I know a lot of other people like this. Maybe you can call us brainwashed or whatever, but this is how myself and most of my co-workers are. I don't think it's an accident that America i…

" ... as a highly ambitious person who wants to win no matter the cost, I couldn't imagine ever working in Europe. "

You can be highly ambitious and work in a balanced culture and still be successful. The fact that you think ambition and work-life balance are mutually exclusive is pretty sad.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#195
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently live/work in the Bay Area, but am a Canadian ex-pat. Over the past year, I've had a series of health-related issues which have me chomping at the bit to either move back to Canada or another country which has a sane healthcare system. The issue with the states isn't just that you might go bankrupt over medical bills, I've found that there's also a huge disparity in quality of care. Back in Canada, you'd g…

Not saying your experience isn’t valid but I’ve had several Canadian friends tell stories the other direction. They were amazed at the level of care they got in the Bay Area as opposed to Canada saying that yes care is available to everybody but you often have to wait a long time and it’s generally mediocre. Grass is greener?

Unfortunately "high level of care" is a bit of an ambiguous term

It's easy to overdiagnose, push unnecessary procedures or exams or just prescribe the barely more efficient medication but that costs 10x more

So, higher level of care is good, sometimes the "base level" can leave you with issues, but most of the time, you just need that aspirine and off time

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one possible take on the difference of perspective. There's a distinction to be made in the nature of the output . Feynman's physics work was investigating nature on behalf of humanity. What artists produce is spiritually/intellectually/emotionally edifying for other people. Contrast this with OP's [killing themselves to make a rich banker richer][0], or, say, working on the next addictive mobile game. This is…

To my mind that isn’t a meaningful distinction. If an artist is doing no harm, and is meanwhile enthralled by his work and his individual notions of beauty or truth or excellence, then I admire his vitality. I don’t know what OP does, but I similarly appreciate his passion. I do believe that much of the heat he’s taking is from people projecting their own insecurity and lack of fulfillment, or some other form of jeal…

> I do believe that much of the heat he’s taking is from people projecting their own insecurity and lack of fulfillment, or some other form of jealousy.

Are you new here? A lot of us in this community have found fulfillment and happiness through the opposite mindset of OP. Compounded by his tone it’s not a surprise he’s taking heat.

> If OP isn’t hurting anyone, more power to him.

OP wants to “win”, which is usually a way to say he wants to be above others.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from Australia to the US I've had a similar experience, but have been tempted to discount it as just familiarity bias that I prefer Australia. But the more time goes on the more undeniable it seems that Australia is a better place to live regardless of any bias I have toward it. So I have begun to embrace that it's just true that Australia is a better place to live. There's just less day to day friction in lif…

i think you're a little biased. Best case the tax rate is about the same. I found it to be higher. It's all situational. For example, you can't file a joint tax return in Australia. You can't deduct mortgage interest. I found pay to be comparable to USA metros while the cost of living (in Sydney at least) is much higher than most metros. The exception being SF/Bay area There is no tipping but you end up paying the sa…

For what it's worth, not tipping is a plus due to the convenience of not having to think about it, I wasn't suggesting customers save money by not tipping.

The resteraunt service thing is often said, but I don't see it. There must be differences in preferences for how customers want to be treated. For example I find US servers kind of pretending to be my best friend. This is unappealing to me, it's fake and awkward. But if that is appealing to Americans, then yes I can see how you are not getting that treatment in Australia.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#198
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my mind that isn’t a meaningful distinction. If an artist is doing no harm, and is meanwhile enthralled by his work and his individual notions of beauty or truth or excellence, then I admire his vitality. I don’t know what OP does, but I similarly appreciate his passion. I do believe that much of the heat he’s taking is from people projecting their own insecurity and lack of fulfillment, or some other form of jeal…

Well I'll say one thing about the "heat", I didn't expect this thread to get so noisy and thought my post was going to defuse it so now I regret that. I thought I was being nice. Anyway, speaking of projection. I'm not the one that said a single thing about domain or work-life balance. You're making up stuff in your brain based on your just-stated tendency towards a false sense of superiority. Which is funny given th…

> “I think the downvotes (that's what gray means right?) are people's way of saying that the personal narrative that defines your life is so boring that your job is the only place you can achieve feelings like that. I feel bad for you so won't downvote.“

Okay... Maybe it came out not as intended, or maybe I misinterpreted it, but this statement shocked me with its (in my interpretation) condescension. “So boring”, ”I feel bad for you,” being I suppose the key phrases. What I had recalled was my own former inferiority complex, of which I believed I saw an echo in your post and many others’ responses. It no longer occurs to me to feel offense (as in many other comments) or pity (as in yours) when someone else speaks in a competitive tone of a singleminded desire to “win,” whatever winning happens to mean to them, and I now regard such reactions as irrational and egocentric, whatever internal mechanism they arise from. To illustrate, I’d predict many of the commenters would to varying degrees celebrate an athlete expressing himself in a similar manner (the most famous example I guess being Muhammad Ali, but there are many other such personalities in individual and team sports), and I believe that is primarily because athletes are in a profession they don’t identify with and therefore cannot locate any basis on which to feel either psychologically threatened or in any other way contrast with their own choices. But I may still be missing nuance in your individual comment.

Both the OC and your assumption that he is “handing [his] life over to the guy [he] works for” seem to me to be speaking pretty squarely of the popular notion of work-life balance. Perhaps I’m again missing some nuance there.

Anyhow, it’s not important. Hope you have a nice week.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my mind that isn’t a meaningful distinction. If an artist is doing no harm, and is meanwhile enthralled by his work and his individual notions of beauty or truth or excellence, then I admire his vitality. I don’t know what OP does, but I similarly appreciate his passion. I do believe that much of the heat he’s taking is from people projecting their own insecurity and lack of fulfillment, or some other form of jeal…

> I do believe that much of the heat he’s taking is from people projecting their own insecurity and lack of fulfillment, or some other form of jealousy. Are you new here? A lot of us in this community have found fulfillment and happiness through the opposite mindset of OP. Compounded by his tone it’s not a surprise he’s taking heat. > If OP isn’t hurting anyone, more power to him. OP wants to “win”, which is usually…

When athletes speak in a competitive tone and express a desire to win, does it offend you?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#200
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These countries are laid back Have you worked in Italy or Spain? I'm Spanish and laid back at work is not a thing. The main reason I moved to Sweden is for is better work life balance. Never go to live where you go for vacations, you will be very disappointed.

@kartan, are siestas still a thing in Spain? I always imagined workers in Spain roll into work around 10, work till 2, then a 2-hour break, and then go home around 6. I guess that's wrong?

Depends on the location and sector. Many restaurants still have siestas, maybe not in the tourist-centers of the big cities, but on the country side for sure.

Just like the US and other federated states, Spain has a lot of diversity within it's borders, and a lot of social/economic questions needs the context of "where" to be answered correctly.

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