Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles • Hacker News Board

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#41

Post by acd » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 7:09 AM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #10

Good. There is a reason you don't see apple like designed plane cockpit. When safety or productivity matters, you need more feedback, more options accessible and faster. That's also why you don't program on a tablet, even with a bt keyboard. Task switching is way to slow, not enough info directly accessible and multi tasking sucks.

In air planes you have touch buttons and physical rotational dials on sides of the screen. Cars might eventually evolve into a voice controlled system to complement the dials.

It is interesting that you may in certain countries not operate a cell phone while driving, yet you can operate a car touch screen.

Air plane systems are for example Garmin GPS 430

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#42

Post by Quequau » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 7:11 AM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #10

Good. There is a reason you don't see apple like designed plane cockpit. When safety or productivity matters, you need more feedback, more options accessible and faster. That's also why you don't program on a tablet, even with a bt keyboard. Task switching is way to slow, not enough info directly accessible and multi tasking sucks.

I think this conflict in ideas is very well captured by the differences in flight control instrument panels in the Orion Spacecraft as compared to SpaceX's Dragon v2.

Here is an image of what I'm referring to: https://rocketry.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/orion-capsule.j...

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#43

Post by floatingatoll » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 7:12 AM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #10

Good. There is a reason you don't see apple like designed plane cockpit. When safety or productivity matters, you need more feedback, more options accessible and faster. That's also why you don't program on a tablet, even with a bt keyboard. Task switching is way to slow, not enough info directly accessible and multi tasking sucks.

Note that plans are a less apt comparison as the cockpit of a plane under most circumstances safely permits looking away from the windscreen for 5-10 seconds at a time (or more) while under no circumstances can cars tolerate more than 1-2 seconds without risk of catastrophe (crash, loss of life and limb, etc).

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#44

Post by dmix » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 7:13 AM UTC

mevile wrote: post #33

sametmax wrote: post #10

Good. There is a reason you don't see apple like designed plane cockpit. When safety or productivity matters, you need more feedback, more options accessible and faster. That's also why you don't program on a tablet, even with a bt keyboard. Task switching is way to slow, not enough info directly accessible and multi tasking sucks.

> There is a reason you don't see apple like designed plane cockpit. Have you seen photos of a 737 Max cockpit... https://www.google.com/search?q=737+max+cockpit&tbm=isch Compare it with a 737-200 cockpit: https://www.google.com/search?q=737-200+cockpit&tbm=isch

The solution is a combination of tablet screens and accessible controls on the steering wheel or on the centre console.

I absolutely love my touch screen in my Honda and never felt unsafe because of it. All the controls for changing songs, volume, voice, etc are on the steering wheel via touch dials or a few buttons.

It’s not like the car (or airplane) companies aren’t aware of this.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#45

Post by ygra » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 7:14 AM UTC

I wonder, is it really the touchscreen that is the problem, or the amount of things a driver is expected to do on it while driving? With the buttons on the steering wheel I never have the need to even reach for the center console and the screen. The only thing that really needs it would be navigation, but that's set once at the start of the trip and then isn't touched again usually.

I'm sure I'm missing something here (or I'm a weird driver), or is it just that without having a multi-function steering wheel touchscreens are more of a hazard than a radio with buttons?

(Ok, reading a few more comments here, it seems that some cars use the touchscreen to also control temperature and other things that are still buttons and dials in our car (the touchscreen is pretty much only media, navigation, phone, and a few other functions I'm forgetting now because I never used them).)

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#46

Post by dmix » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 7:15 AM UTC

acd wrote: post #41

sametmax wrote: post #10

Good. There is a reason you don't see apple like designed plane cockpit. When safety or productivity matters, you need more feedback, more options accessible and faster. That's also why you don't program on a tablet, even with a bt keyboard. Task switching is way to slow, not enough info directly accessible and multi tasking sucks.

In air planes you have touch buttons and physical rotational dials on sides of the screen. Cars might eventually evolve into a voice controlled system to complement the dials. It is interesting that you may in certain countries not operate a cell phone while driving, yet you can operate a car touch screen. Air plane systems are for example Garmin GPS 430

Most of Apple and android auto and Honda built in system is voice and dial controlled while driving in my experience.

I only touch the screen when not driving. It’s not hard.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#47

Post by marapuru » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 7:16 AM UTC

Praise to Mazda for making this decision.

As a User Experience Professional, I was never able to grasp the true user's need for touch screens in cars. For years I have been working on product interfaces (not just apps). Many studies I conducted actually told me that people favored analog controls over digital touch screens controls. It gives you tactile feedback, making it accessible for anyone with sense of touch.

> Audi, for instance has said that part of the reason it’s discontinuing its rotary controller is that a touchscreen better supports Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.

This to me is insane reasoning. That is no way user centric. This decision is 100% business driven and has nothing to do with the end user. It basically means they have given up on developing a good branded interface between the driver and the car.

> phones and tablets are familiar, so too should in-vehicle touchscreens.

This too is so weird to me. I get that you want users to recognize an interface. And that it should mimic how you use other things. But at least put them in context.

I hope other brands start following Mazda again for this choice.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#48

Post by batbomb » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 7:17 AM UTC

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #7

Does carplay support non touch usage?

I have a 2017 GTI and it has a dial you can use to cycle through things but it’s not ideal. Certain things are useless though, like the keyboard for maps, but you can use voice control there.

I do like the VW implementation. There’s still lots of buttons and steering wheel control, and the screen is small enough and UI actions defined enough that I don’t have to look at the screen much to interact.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#49

Post by marapuru » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 7:18 AM UTC

kristianp wrote: post #16

The description of the jog controls sound a lot like those in my 2006 Honda. The description of the torque "“Doing our research, when a driver would reach towards a touch-screen interface in any vehicle, they would unintentionally apply torque to the steering wheel, and the vehicle would drift out of its lane position,", doesn't make any sense. I doesn't matter whether you reach for a touchscreen, button, or bugle, i…

I can imagine it's the combination of looking at the touch screen and reaching out.

A button can be reached with sense of touch alone. A touch screen must be looked (or at least glanced) at.

Re: Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles

#50

Post by TuringTest » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 7:19 AM UTC

That's a sign of an industry with heavy user research and iteration.

In a more conservative industry, interaction practices researched and adopted at the beginning of the discipline would be maintained for decades without questioning -cough programming cough-, and profound changes would require a thorough adjustment of the tools used by the industry and the mentality of the practitioners.