Ask HN: Why is HN HTML laid out in tables?

#1

Post by joeybaker » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 6:42 PM UTC

Hacker News is certainly not HTML5 friendly. Heck it doesn't even validate in HTML4 http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.ycombinator.com%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0

Re: Ask HN: Why is HN HTML laid out in tables?

#2

Post by maukdaddy » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 6:58 PM UTC

Because despite what the CSS purists say, tables work damn well for laying out content.

Re: Ask HN: Why is HN HTML laid out in tables?

#3

Post by beoba » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 6:59 PM UTC

It doesn't claim to be HTML5 to begin with.

Re: Ask HN: Why is HN HTML laid out in tables?

#4

Post by mixmax » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 7:00 PM UTC

Because it works. No mucking about with CSS overflows, stuff that jumps to the next line, things that don't align, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why is HN HTML laid out in tables?

#5

Post by teej » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 7:03 PM UTC

Because it doesn't matter.

Re: Ask HN: Why is HN HTML laid out in tables?

#6

Post by olalonde » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 7:03 PM UTC

Here's pg's official answer (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1998708) :

why is the UI so completely neglected?

Because when I spend time on HN my top priority is features that will make the content better. I believe that matches the priorities of the users-- that users would rather use a site with good stories and comments and a primitive UI than one with a slick UI and worse stories and comments. And time is a zero-sum game. Spending more time on UI = spending less on quality.

The focus on content quality above all is the reason you find yourself saying later "If there were any other community like this..."

[...]

Re: Ask HN: Why is HN HTML laid out in tables?

#7

Post by citricsquid » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 7:05 PM UTC

maukdaddy wrote: post #2

Because despite what the CSS purists say, tables work damn well for laying out content.

Just like an iPad works as a door stop.

edit: heh, downvotes. I am not a "css purist" there are times when tables are the correct solution, but they aren't here. Just because "it works" can be said that doesn't explain/justify their use.

Re: Ask HN: Why is HN HTML laid out in tables?

#8

Post by patrickaljord » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 7:06 PM UTC

maukdaddy wrote: post #2

Because despite what the CSS purists say, tables work damn well for laying out content.

Do you really think that the only reason to use CSS over table is because of purists? CSS is much easier to manage than tables and css frameworks have fixed all issues related cross-browsers problems.

Re: Ask HN: Why is HN HTML laid out in tables?

#9

Post by jpdugan » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 7:16 PM UTC

olalonde wrote: post #6

Here's pg's official answer ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1998708 ) : why is the UI so completely neglected? Because when I spend time on HN my top priority is features that will make the content better. I believe that matches the priorities of the users-- that users would rather use a site with good stories and comments and a primitive UI than one with a slick UI and worse stories and comments. And time is a…

The OP isn't talking about Ajax calls and Dom transformations. He's talking about using semantically correct markup (c'mon, it is literally an ordered list) and a style sheet. Things that would make the site faster, easier to maintain, and easier to parse.

If this were anyone other than pg, you'd all be excoriating the developer for living in the 90s.

Re: Ask HN: Why is HN HTML laid out in tables?

#10

Post by profquail » Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 7:16 PM UTC

I rewrote the HN markup to use XHTML + CSS + MicroFormats last year, but never got a chance to re-write the actual templating code in news.arc (http://www.arclanguage.org).

If anyone's interested in finishing that last part, let me know and I'll be happy to send you the templates and stuff I made. I also added some rudimentary support for mobile-specific stylesheets and scripts.