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Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#11

Post by chrisseaton »

lostmsu wrote: post #2

Considering, that HK leader did not immediately withdrew the bill after the first protest, it is only natural to assume, that that person does not represent the will of the people. So it makes sense to impeach.

> it is only natural to assume, that that person does not represent the will of the people. So it makes sense to impeach.

Is that what impeachment means? To remove someone because they've lost popular support? I thought impeachment was rather about charging a public official with some kind of crime or wrongdoing. Being unpopular isn't a crime.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#12

Post by smnrchrds »

Could someone please explain what the long-term goal of the protesters is? Best case scenario, HK and Chinese government postpone the integration until 2047. What then? When the borders come down, what will happen to all those who openly talked against Beijing government, held candlelight vigils for Tienanmen Square victims, and rallied and protested against a government who does not like people protesting and does not shy away from killing thousands or putting millions in concentration camps.

Do all protesters in HK plan to emigrate before 2047 or do they think they can convince Beijing to keep away even after that date?

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#13

Post by Waterluvian »

smnrchrds wrote: post #12

Could someone please explain what the long-term goal of the protesters is? Best case scenario, HK and Chinese government postpone the integration until 2047. What then? When the borders come down, what will happen to all those who openly talked against Beijing government, held candlelight vigils for Tienanmen Square victims, and rallied and protested against a government who does not like people protesting and does n…

Why does everything have to have some long term goal? Everything is transient. Life is fleeting. Fight for tomorrow.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#14

Post by tlear »

smnrchrds wrote: post #12

Could someone please explain what the long-term goal of the protesters is? Best case scenario, HK and Chinese government postpone the integration until 2047. What then? When the borders come down, what will happen to all those who openly talked against Beijing government, held candlelight vigils for Tienanmen Square victims, and rallied and protested against a government who does not like people protesting and does n…

They are idealists, their parents and grandparents were not subjected to Cultural revolution and rest of the brutality of PRC. They think they can keep the city they love as it is.

Realistically their only hope is collapse of PRC. Never say never and who knows they might help it happen.

I have quite a few classmates back from university (end of 90s start of 2000s) whose families saw writing on the wall, had enough $$ and got the fuck out while going was good.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#15

Post by ajdlinux »

dmix wrote: post #5
lostmsu wrote: post #2

Considering, that HK leader did not immediately withdrew the bill after the first protest, it is only natural to assume, that that person does not represent the will of the people. So it makes sense to impeach.

I've read most the legislature is pro-Beijing, which is how the bill passed in the first place. I doubt these same people are going to impeach her for it.

Just to be clear here - the bill has not passed the Legislative Council, however the bill is expected to pass if and when it is listed for a vote due to the pro-Beijing majority. (Lam's announcement on "suspension" rather than "withdrawal" means that debate on the bill will not be resumed indefinitely, however if the government changes its mind again it could list it for a vote in the Legislative Council immediately.)

LegCo's impeachment power was dead letter law from the start - I can't think of a circumstance where the pro-Beijing camp would ever use it, short of perhaps some situation where a previously pro-Beijing chief executive has gone rogue and refuses to resign...

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#16

Post by Ennis »

smnrchrds wrote: post #12

Could someone please explain what the long-term goal of the protesters is? Best case scenario, HK and Chinese government postpone the integration until 2047. What then? When the borders come down, what will happen to all those who openly talked against Beijing government, held candlelight vigils for Tienanmen Square victims, and rallied and protested against a government who does not like people protesting and does n…

Naturally most people do things they think they can continue doing in the future. The more HKers value their way of life and defend it the more difficult it will be to tear down the walls just like that. Facts on the ground influence political outcomes.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#17

Post by [deleted] »

smnrchrds wrote: post #12

Could someone please explain what the long-term goal of the protesters is? Best case scenario, HK and Chinese government postpone the integration until 2047. What then? When the borders come down, what will happen to all those who openly talked against Beijing government, held candlelight vigils for Tienanmen Square victims, and rallied and protested against a government who does not like people protesting and does n…

[deleted]

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#18

Post by Leary »

smnrchrds wrote: post #12

Could someone please explain what the long-term goal of the protesters is? Best case scenario, HK and Chinese government postpone the integration until 2047. What then? When the borders come down, what will happen to all those who openly talked against Beijing government, held candlelight vigils for Tienanmen Square victims, and rallied and protested against a government who does not like people protesting and does n…

One Country, Two Systems actually stipulates that Hong Kong shall enjoy a high degree of autonomy for "at least" 50 years, there is nothing that state what will actually happen afterwards.

Therefore it is conceivable for Hong Kong to remain somewhat autonomous after 2047, after which, it is possible for mainland China to further develop politically and legally so that integration would cause less of an issue.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#19

Post by JumpCrisscross »

tlear wrote: post #14
smnrchrds wrote: post #12

Could someone please explain what the long-term goal of the protesters is? Best case scenario, HK and Chinese government postpone the integration until 2047. What then? When the borders come down, what will happen to all those who openly talked against Beijing government, held candlelight vigils for Tienanmen Square victims, and rallied and protested against a government who does not like people protesting and does n…

They are idealists, their parents and grandparents were not subjected to Cultural revolution and rest of the brutality of PRC. They think they can keep the city they love as it is. Realistically their only hope is collapse of PRC. Never say never and who knows they might help it happen. I have quite a few classmates back from university (end of 90s start of 2000s) whose families saw writing on the wall, had enough $$…

> their only hope is collapse of PRC

Not necessarily. A respectful and long-term oriented Beijing would be fine. (The CPC would need to change, to prevent a dictator-for-life like Xi from re-emerging.)

There are a lot of win-win outcomes between the subjugation of Hong Kong and collapse of China.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#20

Post by komali2 »

smnrchrds wrote: post #12

Could someone please explain what the long-term goal of the protesters is? Best case scenario, HK and Chinese government postpone the integration until 2047. What then? When the borders come down, what will happen to all those who openly talked against Beijing government, held candlelight vigils for Tienanmen Square victims, and rallied and protested against a government who does not like people protesting and does n…

They're fighting for a democratic China. Nobody else within the Chinese political sphere is so overtly standing up to xi jinping.

I think it's good. They're giving hope to fellow supporters of Chinese democracy. There's people like that on the mainland and they don't have much else to give them hope.

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