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An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

city-journal.org

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Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#71

Post by scarface74 »

mulmen wrote: post #64
scarface74 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you tightly regulate the “pharma space” and those drugs are harder to get, the same addicts will just find a substitute drug. The “War on Drugs” has been an abysmal failure. If you lock up the users, you’re just spending more money housing non violent offenders. If you lock up the sellers, someone else will take their place. Homeless drug addicts don’t fear jail, how could it be any worse than life on the stre…

We are absolutely feeling the pain of a lack of social safety nets for all kinds of problems. Unpopular opinion: I’m ok putting non-violent people in jail when they break the law. We need reform in the jails and prisons, not more lenient sentencing. And because I’m sure it needs to be clarified, not every law breaker needs to go to jail immediately.

I agree that some “non violent offenders” should go to jail if they break the law. I don’t agree on a lot of the laws that are on the books that stop consenting adults from making their own decisions. Some things that are currently illegal that shouldn’t be:

- selling drugs to adults.

- adults buying drugs

- prostitution (either side)

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#72

Post by Thorrez »

quakingaspen wrote: post #20

While this article alleges that addiction is the root cause of homelessness, it makes no effort to prove that claim. That there is correlation between the two is clear, but claiming that addiction is the root cause of homelessness of the west coast is just fear-mongering. Determining root cause is important to finding the right solution. Further cracking down on homeless people will just transfer them from the street…

>Further cracking down on homeless people will just transfer them from the streets to jails, where they will cost the taxpayers exorbitant amounts of money (and if they're in a private prison, create profit for private interests), while failing to get people back on their feet when they are eventually let go.

It doesn't seem the article is advocating for a crackdown. The article seems to advocate for cities "to provide access to on-demand detox, rehabilitation, and recovery programs that might help people overcome their addictions."

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#73

Post by mulmen »

scarface74 wrote: post #71
mulmen wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are absolutely feeling the pain of a lack of social safety nets for all kinds of problems. Unpopular opinion: I’m ok putting non-violent people in jail when they break the law. We need reform in the jails and prisons, not more lenient sentencing. And because I’m sure it needs to be clarified, not every law breaker needs to go to jail immediately.

I agree that some “non violent offenders” should go to jail if they break the law. I don’t agree on a lot of the laws that are on the books that stop consenting adults from making their own decisions. Some things that are currently illegal that shouldn’t be: - selling drugs to adults. - adults buying drugs - prostitution (either side)

I only agree with 1 and 2 and to a lesser extent 3 in the presence of free universal healthcare and adequate safety nets.

If we simply legalized all drugs tomorrow I don’t think it would solve many problems. We have to also look at and treat the underlying cause of addiction and drug abuse.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#74

Post by NotSammyHagar »

He provides no evidence to back up his claim that it's a drug crisis at root. I walk through Seattle every day and there's definitely an aspect of drug use, but it's many many other things, including people too poor to afford a house here, people with mental issues, along with a lot of drug use. Then I noticed the name of this author, a kind of frustrated conservative who ran for office in Seattle and claimed basically that people were really mean to him - so take his claims with a giant tub of salt.

Regardless of the situation, the city is not really coping very well with this challenge. We should just do what Utah did, focus on getting housing for everyone, then you can send treatment to them. I can't quite understand why we can't arrest and hold people to longer sentences who commit crimes dozens of times in Seattle. This is separate from just arresting people for drug use, which never solves anything. Get housing, get enough services, treatment for people and also police and other services. That is how we deal with this.

[update, fixed a few typos]

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#75

Post by NotSammyHagar »

baxtr wrote: post #38
maxxxxx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from Germany I found it interesting how much the US culture depends on ingesting substances to make you feel better. Be it painkillers or “superfood” or other things. That makes the US really vulnerable to all kinds of addictions. As a kid I remember only a few occasions where I took any kind of medicine but today’s kids know a ton about all kinds of drugs and it seems pretty standard to take some.

Hmm, makes me wonder if it is in any way related to the somewhat “lost” cooking culture in the states. My roommate in the States didn’t even know how to cook tea or how to boil an egg. And I am really not kidding. Might be a crazy theory but maybe...

Who can't make tea? Or boil an egg. That's a terrible kind of exceptionalism. I've never seen that in the us.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#76

Post by iamnothere »

mulmen wrote: post #64
scarface74 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you tightly regulate the “pharma space” and those drugs are harder to get, the same addicts will just find a substitute drug. The “War on Drugs” has been an abysmal failure. If you lock up the users, you’re just spending more money housing non violent offenders. If you lock up the sellers, someone else will take their place. Homeless drug addicts don’t fear jail, how could it be any worse than life on the stre…

We are absolutely feeling the pain of a lack of social safety nets for all kinds of problems. Unpopular opinion: I’m ok putting non-violent people in jail when they break the law. We need reform in the jails and prisons, not more lenient sentencing. And because I’m sure it needs to be clarified, not every law breaker needs to go to jail immediately.

Why is jail necessarily the best answer? Fines and restitution, community service, court mandated counseling, "night jail" (must report to jail after work) and other tools would work better for preventing and correcting the harms of many (if not most?) types of nonviolent crime. Traditional jailing creates all kinds of assorted harms that actively prevent rehabilitation and which probably don't provide much deterrence.

Your suggestion of reform is indeed necessary, but some of the things I suggested above would fall outside of what most people would consider "jail." We are stuck on this singular "solution", and why? It doesn't seem to be very effective.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#77

Post by tathougies »

seltzered_ wrote: post #12

I think the question to ask is what created the opioid problem in the first place - I tend to think it's lack of regulation in the pharma space. I've criticised the author (Chris Rufo, associated with the conservative and intelligent design group Discovery Institute) in his earlier pieces (see https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/acwqng/podcast_s... ) where he used seemingly incomplete estimates on the funding…

> I tend to think it's lack of regulation in the pharma space.

According to what I've read online though, most of the illegal opioids are not prescription, but rather from Chinese manufacturers via Mexican drug cartels.

I think that the thing that started this was the demand for psychedelics and pain killers among the rich tech workers of Silicon Valley, LA, SF, Seattle, etc, which have infected the west coast with the false notion that drugs are a 'victimless' crime. I've personally witnessed many very educated, very rich college students, take opioids -- not from a doctor's prescription -- but because they thought it would be fun. Perhaps they are not the addicts talked about here, but the fact is that their ability and desire to pay thousands for this stuff means that the drug cartels are enabled, enriched, and now have an incentive to market to less individually-wealthy, but larger markets.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#78

Post by NotSammyHagar »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #48

This is a dishonest narrative propped up with misunderstood statistics. He claims that saying "30% of homeless people" are addicts contradicts the claim that "80% of unsheltered" - but he's been arguing about how to get rid of homeless people for long enough to know that unsheltered is a subset of the homeless, and generally the group with the most issues (which is why they are sleeping outside and not even in a car)…

Rufo isn't interested in an open consideration of the facts. I think he just wants to curry conservative support.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#79

Post by diogenescynic »

I have been saying this for a while and the activists in San Francisco get so offended. 90% of the people on the street in the Bay Area are on meth or heroin. Their addiction is the bigger issue than housing affordability. The reason so many homeless have come to California lately is that California cities give cash handouts almost immediately. We are absolutely being taken advantage of and really we are making the problem worse.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#80

Post by pbhjpbhj »

DataWorker wrote: post #14
ltbarcly3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everyone has some kind of support network, whether it's extended family or friends, that would offer a spare bed or a couch. Sure, they won't let you stay forever, but it will keep you off the street until you can get yourself together. People who are living on the street, for the most part, have burned through all the support their family and friends are willing to give. Their addiction or mental illness (or…

“Almost everyone has some kind of support network” Except for, you know, homeless people.

I'm not sure that comment is helpful.

Clearly the parent is saying that people start out with some sort of support network, and are likely to have transitioned from their own accommodation to sleeping on a couch or in a spare room, and _then_ become homeless. That in that process those with the most extreme problems lose, one way or another, their useful support network.

To counter the parents claim we'd need solid figures of those who went from self-supported accommodation direct to being homeless on the street without any support from family or friends [or others].

Shelter did an indicative, not statistically significant report in which they say

>"Half of the people we spoke to ended up rough sleeping because they had nowhere else to turn. This could be because they didn’t know anyone who was able to accommodate them, or they had burned bridges with friends and families due to drug and/or alcohol misuse." (Ch.3, "Summary report - On the Streets", from [2])

Half isn't quite the large majority the parent claims, but this isn't a statistical survey. I think it gives enough support that one should need to prove them wrong with well supported figures.

This page [1] has some relevant stats which I think largely support the parents position but the question of "did you arrive as a rough sleeper from being hidden homeless" doesn't seem to be well shown in stats I could readily find.

Crisis have pertinent UK stats too [3].

[1] https://www.trustforlondon.org.uk/data/rough-sleepers-london...

[2] http://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/policy_...

[3] https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/homelessness-k...

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