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The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

economist.com

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Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#11
post #3

PhD graduates do at least earn more than those with a bachelor’s degree. A study in the Journal of Higher Education Policy and Management by Bernard Casey shows that British men with a bachelor’s degree earn 14% more than those who could have gone to university but chose not to. The earnings premium for a PhD is 26%. But the premium for a master’s degree, which can be accomplished in as little as one year, is almost…

I have a feeling that you're equating a PhD with a Master's or Bachelor's degree. The ultimate goal of a PhD is to prepare you to do 'real research' in that you're trained to collaborate with academics, dig through academic materials, compile results, and ultimately add to the knowledge of mankind. This is fundamentally different from a BS or MS. Replacing the academic setting for this, in my opinion, would be suboptimal, if not detrimental. This is academia in its purest form almost...basically what it was originally intended to do! Not train people for the job market, but to further the actual academic studies of everything!

What you're forgetting is that if there are a ton of hungry PhD's running around looking for work where your Joe-Master's Degree or Jim-Bachelor's Degrees are looking for work, chances are they may displace quite a few of those guys if they look to enter the standard work force. Not because a PhD makes one inherently better, but because it seems like so many employers look at paper qualifications, and actually a lot of PhD's did work REALLY HARD to get their PhD...so at least they've shown they can work really hard on something and come up with a contribution.

Also, government budget cuts never seem to affect military research, where a TON of research dollars stems from. I have a feeling that the government will get its house in order without massive research spending cuts.

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#13

On underpay: this varies highly by country. I am a PhD candidate in The Netherlands, and am employed by the university for four years (as most PhD candidates here). This gives around modal income, a 13th month of salary, holiday allowance, and about two months of holidays per year. This is a bit less than one would earn going into business immediately, but it buys you a lot of freedom. The education/research split is…

It kind of depends on your point of view, I suppose. Let's take a look at two examples.

> Example 1: Highschool dropout with no advanced education earning minimum wage; 23 years old:

Gross minimum wage for 23yo and above € 1424,40 per month, assuming a 40h workweek. Usually with paid overtime and some benefits depending on employer.

> Example 2: Student who excelled at high school until 18, completed bachelor at 21, completed master in science at 23, started PhD at 24:

Gross wage[1] €2000 per month, with realistically a 45h to 50h workweek. Better benefits and usually a 13th month. Intellectually more challenging work (probably), but few career possibilities in the academic field.

--

Also you have to take into account that the grad student has to pay substantially more in taxes than the minimum wage employee. The difference was only 1.5x to start with, after taxes the PhD student will probably only earn 25% more than the minimum wage employee. Just for the record, I'm not arguing against education here, or even making any statement about whether it makes sense to do a PhD. Just adding some numbers because your message makes it seem like PhDs are well compensated given their intelligence and the work they have to put in. From my point of view they're ridiculously underpaid.

A few of my friends are grad students, and they all live in 600 square feet (55 meter squared) apartments. It kind of sucks to live a 600 square foot apartment until you're 29-30, with no substantial savings for a down-payment on a house for after you graduate.

Source 1: https://intranet.tudelft.nl/live/pagina.jsp?id=91ae4d5c-5d21...

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#14
A PhD is all about wealth creation [1]. Also many of the technologies we take for granted were due to "lowly" PhD students toiling away. I can't even imagine how without decades of dedicated academic effort we can have semiconductor based electronics, massively layered software that work seamlessly, etc. Maybe the author can. "The fiercest critics compare research doctorates to Ponzi or pyramid schemes." The "fiercest critics" don't want to and can't see or think beyond their noses.

http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#15
post #9

The sole purpose of some PhDs is to serve as cheap labour for the research efforts of a professor.

Yes, this is somewhat true -- I know several professors that accept virtually any student as an advisor, provided they're willing to work on their over-arching research program.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, though. In some of these fields, one of the bottlenecks seems to be the low numbers of researchers worldwide in the area. While the students do provide cheap labour, they also (depending on the fame of the professor) get immense networking resources. Since the field has comparatively few people, the big names all know each other, and all help get their students hired post-thesis.

Nepotism? Perhaps. But for the research program I'm thinking of in particular, if the problem does get solved, it'll revolutionize mathematics. Talking to some of the students involved, I feel that's why they're willing to put up with being cheap labor -- they're getting paid in happiness and a feeling of being worthy.

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#16
post #4

Nice read. Speaking as a PhD I am okay with the PhD certificate having no value (you don't deserve extra earnings for having the certificate). It was my intent to learn some valuable things during the degree process, and I did.

Exactly my sentiments. I'm currently in a PhD program, but not because I intend to be in academia. I love the field I'm studying, and I just felt like doing it instead of joining the workforce. I'll probably learn a cool thing or two. Why not? There are a decent number of ding dongs in PhD programs too. The level of ding dong-ery doesn't seem to change wherever you go.

For me earning a PhD was not about the money or wealth creation. It was about the chance to work on a exciting research project that could make a real difference and contribution to scientific knowledge.

Besides, in the UK at least the scholarship funding is not bad at all. I found the £12K per year tax free funding was easily enough to be comfortable on whilst doing my research.

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#18
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly my sentiments. I'm currently in a PhD program, but not because I intend to be in academia. I love the field I'm studying, and I just felt like doing it instead of joining the workforce. I'll probably learn a cool thing or two. Why not? There are a decent number of ding dongs in PhD programs too. The level of ding dong-ery doesn't seem to change wherever you go.

For me earning a PhD was not about the money or wealth creation. It was about the chance to work on a exciting research project that could make a real difference and contribution to scientific knowledge. Besides, in the UK at least the scholarship funding is not bad at all. I found the £12K per year tax free funding was easily enough to be comfortable on whilst doing my research.

Agreed. PhD's in the US that pursue the hard sciences and engineering are generally funded fairly well.

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#19
post #4

Nice read. Speaking as a PhD I am okay with the PhD certificate having no value (you don't deserve extra earnings for having the certificate). It was my intent to learn some valuable things during the degree process, and I did.

I agree with the argument that PhD's might be underpaid a bit, but I think the author is exaggerating when he says that universities exploit them to get cheap research done, or that there are too many PhD's being produced by the system in general (as if this had a strongly negative impact on our society?)

Re: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time

#20
If anyone is curious, here are the median starting salaries for graduates from Stanford's CS/EE departments (survey was self selecting so the numbers are probably skewed up, but there were a large number of responses):

Undergrad: 80k Masters: 87k PhD: 114k

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