An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#11

Post by twic » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

portonoy wrote: post #9

oil25 wrote: post #5

For anyone interested in how drugs became such a crisis in America, I highly recommend History Channel's "America's War on Drugs" ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7026882/ ) - it's free with a trial on Prime Video. It is a fascinating story involving the CIA, fear of communism and, of course, the bottomless guile of corporate greed.

Also check out The History Channel's 'Ancient Aliens' and 'Ice Road Truckers' The history channel is bullshit. Primary sources or gtfo

Wait, are you implying that Ice Road Truckers is inaccurate?

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#12

Post by seltzered_ » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

I think the question to ask is what created the opioid problem in the first place - I tend to think it's lack of regulation in the pharma space.

I've criticised the author (Chris Rufo, associated with the conservative and intelligent design group Discovery Institute) in his earlier pieces (see https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/acwqng/podcast_s... ) where he used seemingly incomplete estimates on the funding used in homeless initiatives and suggesting unproven solutions (large tents, sanitariums).

I'm not denying the homeless and drug problems in Seattle. I live in the same neighborhoods where I've seen people shoot up in starbucks bathrooms and on the street, RV camps of bicycle chop shops and filth. The King County complaint Rufo links to ( https://www.krcomplexlit.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/King... ) arguably means the local government is trying to take that first step in recognizing "addiction is the common denominator for most of the homeless", right?

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#13

Post by tptacek » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 7:11 PM UTC

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #10

gatvol wrote: post #4

Unclear to me if they're homeless because of addiction, or became addicted after becoming homeless. This distinction would seem crucial to me.

Almost everyone has some kind of support network, whether it's extended family or friends, that would offer a spare bed or a couch. Sure, they won't let you stay forever, but it will keep you off the street until you can get yourself together. People who are living on the street, for the most part, have burned through all the support their family and friends are willing to give. Their addiction or mental illness (or…

Lots of people don't have support networks of people who will lend them housing. Be very careful with the presumption that anyone on the street must have burned through a support network.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#14

Post by DataWorker » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 7:11 PM UTC

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #10

gatvol wrote: post #4

Unclear to me if they're homeless because of addiction, or became addicted after becoming homeless. This distinction would seem crucial to me.

Almost everyone has some kind of support network, whether it's extended family or friends, that would offer a spare bed or a couch. Sure, they won't let you stay forever, but it will keep you off the street until you can get yourself together. People who are living on the street, for the most part, have burned through all the support their family and friends are willing to give. Their addiction or mental illness (or…

“Almost everyone has some kind of support network”

Except for, you know, homeless people.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#15

Post by hackermailman » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 7:14 PM UTC

From my anecdotal experience living in an area filled with fentanyl shooting drug addicts I've noticed they generally are substance abusers with other drugs, such as meth or heavy drinking, ilegally procured prescription pills, cocaine etc., they have groups of fellow substance abusers they meet with daily to combine resources and when the money runs out switch to other drugs that are cheaper to buy like bags of heroin to snort which they quickly get hooked on and then I would see them on the street shooting up.

Another question is why do some countries not even have a drug taking culture in the first place. Lot's of places I've been to where the population isn't interested in any drug use despite it being decriminalized or readily available.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#16

Post by bob33212 » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 7:15 PM UTC

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #10

gatvol wrote: post #4

Unclear to me if they're homeless because of addiction, or became addicted after becoming homeless. This distinction would seem crucial to me.

Almost everyone has some kind of support network, whether it's extended family or friends, that would offer a spare bed or a couch. Sure, they won't let you stay forever, but it will keep you off the street until you can get yourself together. People who are living on the street, for the most part, have burned through all the support their family and friends are willing to give. Their addiction or mental illness (or…

I agree, but I would add that sometimes addiction is related to people being overwhelmed by life events. If those life events never happened the user never would have gotten this bad.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#17

Post by DataWorker » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 7:16 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #13

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everyone has some kind of support network, whether it's extended family or friends, that would offer a spare bed or a couch. Sure, they won't let you stay forever, but it will keep you off the street until you can get yourself together. People who are living on the street, for the most part, have burned through all the support their family and friends are willing to give. Their addiction or mental illness (or…

Lots of people don't have support networks of people who will lend them housing. Be very careful with the presumption that anyone on the street must have burned through a support network.

Exactly. And for those fortunate enough to have one, it is possible that the entire support network is also homeless, or in prison, or in another country, currently in rehab or a nursing home, or some mix of these.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#18

Post by ltbarcly3 » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 7:17 PM UTC

bob33212 wrote: post #16

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everyone has some kind of support network, whether it's extended family or friends, that would offer a spare bed or a couch. Sure, they won't let you stay forever, but it will keep you off the street until you can get yourself together. People who are living on the street, for the most part, have burned through all the support their family and friends are willing to give. Their addiction or mental illness (or…

I agree, but I would add that sometimes addiction is related to people being overwhelmed by life events. If those life events never happened the user never would have gotten this bad.

Yes, I hope it doesn't sound like I am trying to blame people for a situation they are trapped in. I just feel strongly that we need to underline the real issues and not let homeless people be used as a political token to push a political agenda that won't help them.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#19

Post by fwip » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 7:17 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #3

Waterluvian wrote: post #2

Maybe I missed it in the article. What percentage of homeless in these cities are or were recent drug users?

>In Seattle, prosecutors and law enforcement recently estimated that the majority of the region’s homeless population is hooked on opioids, including heroin and fentanyl.... For the unsheltered population inhabiting tents, cars, and RVs, the opioid-addiction percentages are even higher—the City of Seattle’s homeless-outreach team estimates that 80 percent of the unsheltered population has a substance-abuse disorder.…

Also from the article: the mayor estimates the rate at 1 in 3. Still no word on methodology.

Re: An Addiction Crisis Disguised as a Housing Crisis

#20

Post by quakingaspen » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 7:19 PM UTC

While this article alleges that addiction is the root cause of homelessness, it makes no effort to prove that claim. That there is correlation between the two is clear, but claiming that addiction is the root cause of homelessness of the west coast is just fear-mongering.

Determining root cause is important to finding the right solution. Further cracking down on homeless people will just transfer them from the streets to jails, where they will cost the taxpayers exorbitant amounts of money (and if they're in a private prison, create profit for private interests), while failing to get people back on their feet when they are eventually let go.

> no city on the West Coast has a solution for homeless opioid addicts

While Utah isn't technically the West coast, how does the author's claim hold up in the face of the resounding success of their efforts to reduce chronic homelessness (down 91% in a decade while saving the government 50%)? Does this proven solution fit with his root cause model?

See: https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chroni...