Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#51

Post by nobodyandproud » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

mruts wrote: post #7

llamataboot wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's okay, you can sub most any country in Europe in, and still end up with a much more sane work culture than the US.

Many people (including myself), don't want a laid back work culture. I want to kill myself for the firm, and work as hard as humanly possible. I think I just derive the most happiness from working (though I do like drinking as well). I know a lot of other people like this. Maybe you can call us brainwashed or whatever, but this is how myself and most of my co-workers are. I don't think it's an accident that America i…

This is fine if you own your own business; or if you’re taking a chance to strike gold through an IPO; or if a fat bonus is waiting for a killer performance; or the chance for highly paid advancement is real.

Then yeah, that makes sense. Except that this isn’t for everyone and these opportunities are not even common to begin with.

So for regular jobs demanding that the average worker put in 60+ hours a week, with no share of the profits, while senior members of the firm take in millions or more, with intrusive weekends and lack of friends&family time?

The correct response is an honest Glassdoor review and a go-fuck-yourself to management.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#52

Post by kartan » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 4:15 PM UTC

falsedan wrote: post #30

I recently moved from working for a US company to working for a CH one. There’s some disadvantages, like people not giving their all at work slowing things down. Compared to the previous role, it’s glacial. But no on call, 6 weeks vacation, and 8% pension contribution from the company that I don’t even have to match is a good trade-off. Work is always going to be frustrating, but I’m at a point in my life that I’d ra…

> Work is always going to be frustrating

I had a direct report with this problem. We talked about it and I helped him to realize that his previous situation was unhealthy.

He was used to crunch, he was used to feel a hero for delivering at the cost of his own health and without time for his girlfriend.

After the long talk he recognized that he was missing the adrenaline, he was so used to the stress that he was missing it. With time it got better.

Feeling needed, the adrenaline rush, that feeling of accomplishment can be addictive. But, like tobacco, it does not mean that it is good for you.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#53

Post by adamnemecek » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 4:16 PM UTC

x38iq84n wrote: post #10

How I moved to another country, used its health and social insurance to achieve a positive balance. Then I shame someone who paid $3M in income tax on their not-so-risk-free income that could turn from $21M to $-21M very quickly. Really?

It's not as risky as it might seem.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#54

Post by EGreg » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 4:16 PM UTC

Tomte wrote: post #12

mruts wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people (including myself), don't want a laid back work culture. I want to kill myself for the firm, and work as hard as humanly possible. I think I just derive the most happiness from working (though I do like drinking as well). I know a lot of other people like this. Maybe you can call us brainwashed or whatever, but this is how myself and most of my co-workers are. I don't think it's an accident that America i…

> I don't think it's an accident that America is the most rich and powerful country in the world. Or that American Tech dominant the world (except for China) You were the winners of a World War that left your competitors in scorched ruins, while you hadn't suffered much physical damage. In the multi-stranded bundle of reasons for American dominance, this is the big one.

How about taking over an entire continent from the natives, sharing a language and federal government that led to only ONE (count em) war on the continent in 300 years, and so on. Read Stratfor’s “inevitable empire” series on USA:

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/geopolitics-united-st...

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#55

Post by SlowRobotAhead » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 4:16 PM UTC

JBorrow wrote: post #16

Reedx wrote: post #9

Is Switzerland producing anything like SpaceX? Or Google? Or Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Tesla, Stripe, Y Combinator? More importantly, would we have produced these with their system? If so, then great, but let's see the evidence. No problem to have a work culture preference, and things could definitely be improved(!!), but I think we're kidding ourselves that there are no tradeoffs and everything would simply be better.…

The US has a population 40 times higher, that's not really a fair comparison. Also: Nestle, Logitech? Just because they don't have shiny frontmen doesn't mean they aren't worthy. Google also has a large AI research department in Switzerland.

Switzerland is the population of New Jersey over twice the size.

It’s crazy how people don’t have any sense of scale on these things.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#56

Post by fileeditview » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #47

I personally find Switzerland boring and expensive. And I'm not sure your work culture is going to be that different if you work at Google or another tech company. If I go back to Europe I would go to Portugal or Italy or Spain. These countries are laid back, cheap, have good weather and good food. What else do you want? London and some cities in France like Bordeaux or Montpellier are insanely fun too.

If you can find a job there with a good salary then that's probably not a bad choice. It will however be harder than finding one in Switzerland (or Germany).

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#57

Post by SlowRobotAhead » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

bhaak wrote: post #41

S_A_P wrote: post #8

Transportation is the biggest difference between the us and a lot of the rest of the world. Switzerland is the size of a small New England state. Mass transit is a tough thing to scale. That said I’ve noticed that a lot of the jobs in the us that would be considered “glamorous” are by and large the lowest paying jobs with the longest hours. Looking past the status of a company and career and looking into the practica…

> Transportation is the biggest difference between the us and a lot of the rest of the world. Switzerland is the size of a small New England state. Mass transit is a tough thing to scale. I don't buy this argument. "We are much bigger than $OTHER_COUNTRY therefore we can't have comparable public transport". I concur that for the whole country this might be a viable argument but it doesn't explain why the public trans…

I wonder how many people that don’t buy that argument have driven across the USA a few times?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#58

Post by Aaronmacaron » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

Previous HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9987816

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#59

Post by eternalny1 » Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

My father worked for decades for a Fortune 100 company in the US as a manager and then worked in Switzerland for a few years.

In both scenarios, he had a comfortable life. The US company provided great benefits, a pension, good work hours, and the job in Switzerland was even better.

When I discuss what it's like to work in the technology sector, he doesn't understand it. 1099 contract work with extremely expensive health coverage? I should get a job that provides benefits! Daily long hours or death marches? I need to find a company that provides a better "work/life" balance. Start-ups that don't pay you now but "you have a chance at equity"? I should find one that succeeds.

I'll keep trying.