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U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#41

Post by mirimir »

true_tuna wrote: post #6

Holy crap. This is huge news. Isn’t a cyber attack on critical infrastructure kind of an act of war? I’m not sure how wise this course of action is.

I recall reading, some years ago, that the US reserves the right to respond to cyberattacks with nuclear weapons. I wonder if Russia also does.

Playing games with power grids etc is arguably much higher stakes than fighters messing with each other, or even with passenger planes. Or navy ships passing too closely.

Edit: I guess that it was more like a heads up for adversaries. As in "don't think that we won't". Just in case you didn't think we were that hardcore.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#42

Post by mirimir »

yasp wrote: post #26
mycall wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This depends. If blackouts start happening, the situation could escalate to war pretty fast.

Plus, what if multiple state actors penetrate a system and each lay their own "implants"? Mutually assuredly destruction only works if you can attribute an attack. Unless you're planning on destroying non-guilty actors too. What if NK, China, and Russia all hack the same system and then eventually the system fails catastrophically as a result of malware and no one takes credit. How could the US respond? What if the p…

True. The perpetrator could be some kid, doing it for lulz.

Edit: As in "WarGames".

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#43

Post by hmage »

jacquesm wrote: post #38
holoduke wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's part of a larger game these nations are playing. There will not be a war between Russia and the US. Not with China who is ultimately the enemy of both Russia and the US. These incidents are meant to keep each other awake.

It sets the stage for a false flag operation where the Chinese disable Russia's power infrastructure making it look like it was America.

False flag operations aren't new concept, taking out Ukraine's power plants for a few hours could also be false flag operation with Russia not even involved as a pretext to get more military funding. Or russian links to Trump a false flag operation by some third party to install their own president. I've seen russia used as a scary monster so often I always think "who does _actually_ benefit from this" whenever russia comes up in news headlines.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#44

Post by zzzcpan »

hmage wrote: post #43
jacquesm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sets the stage for a false flag operation where the Chinese disable Russia's power infrastructure making it look like it was America.

False flag operations aren't new concept, taking out Ukraine's power plants for a few hours could also be false flag operation with Russia not even involved as a pretext to get more military funding. Or russian links to Trump a false flag operation by some third party to install their own president. I've seen russia used as a scary monster so often I always think "who does _actually_ benefit from this" whenever russi…

> taking out Ukraine's power plants for a few hours

That didn't actually happen.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#45

Post by gruez »

gbuk2013 wrote: post #28

Wonderful. What better way to drive home the message that the Russian government’s strategy of control over internet and Great Firewall makes total sense from the POV of national security.

>strategy of control over internet and Great Firewall makes total sense from the POV of national security

How do those contribute to national security? "control over internet"/gfw aka censorship isn't going to prevent any cyberattacks.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#46

Post by kyrieeschaton »

mirimir wrote: post #41
true_tuna wrote: post #6

Holy crap. This is huge news. Isn’t a cyber attack on critical infrastructure kind of an act of war? I’m not sure how wise this course of action is.

I recall reading, some years ago, that the US reserves the right to respond to cyberattacks with nuclear weapons. I wonder if Russia also does. Playing games with power grids etc is arguably much higher stakes than fighters messing with each other, or even with passenger planes. Or navy ships passing too closely. Edit: I guess that it was more like a heads up for adversaries. As in "don't think that we won't". Just i…

Every state "reserves the right" to do whatever they want, including things they have previously claimed they will not do. That is literally the definition of sovereignty.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#47

Post by btcbanking »

mirimir wrote: post #41
true_tuna wrote: post #6

Holy crap. This is huge news. Isn’t a cyber attack on critical infrastructure kind of an act of war? I’m not sure how wise this course of action is.

I recall reading, some years ago, that the US reserves the right to respond to cyberattacks with nuclear weapons. I wonder if Russia also does. Playing games with power grids etc is arguably much higher stakes than fighters messing with each other, or even with passenger planes. Or navy ships passing too closely. Edit: I guess that it was more like a heads up for adversaries. As in "don't think that we won't". Just i…

Nuclear response sounds good to me ...

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#49

Post by DevoidSimo »

pmoriarty wrote: post #8

"For the past year, energy companies in the United States and oil and gas operators across North America discovered their networks had been examined by the same Russian hackers who successfully dismantled the safety systems in 2017 at Petro Rabigh, a Saudi petrochemical plant and oil refinery." Why are these systems even connected to the internet? Decades ago, creating such connections might have been a forgivable ov…

I work in the industry.

On the electrical distribution side, there are a few things which may need internet connectivity. Getting map tiles for displays; having an externally contracted call center integrate with the outage management; automatic vehicle location (painting crew vehicles on the displays).

Adding to the last point, something that is coming to the industry is read only access to the system from a mobile device. This requires internet or a private network across the bounds of your network.

I don't want to talk too much about company specifics, but typically modern systems will have servers dedicated to only internet related functions. They will be internally firewalled from any servers which could make changes on the network. These systems aren't cheap though, a lot of what we replace is 15-30 years old. As such, it may not be as secure as it could be.

I've mainly talked about distribution. Transmission and generation also have functionality which requires the internet, or at the least a very large private network.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#50

Post by emXdem »

_iyig wrote: post #23

“So far, there is no evidence that the United States has actually turned off the power in any of the efforts to establish what American officials call a “persistent presence” inside Russian networks, just as the Russians have not turned off power in the United States.” The NYT decision to frame these efforts as “attacks” rather than “infiltration” is certainly an interesting one. In essence, the U.S. has built a (dig…

The New York Times has a trash editorial board. Fuck them with a barbed instrument made of lava.
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