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Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

wsj.com

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Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#21

Post by ForHackernews »

randyrand wrote: post #18
kombucha11 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well she may be from HK and she gets paid by HK government but we all know she's a mainland shill and was chosen for that reason. She is 100pc in the pocket of the mainland government

how did she get elected?

The head of Hong Kong is not elected by popular suffrage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests#Backgr...

> The leader of Hong Kong, the Chief executive, is currently elected by a 1200-member Election Committee, though Article 45 of the Basic Law states that "the ultimate aim is the selection of the Chief executive by universal suffrage upon nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee in accordance with democratic procedures."

The election committee is more pro-CCP than the general Hong Kong populace, and the current leader, Carrie Lam, is widely held to be a puppet of Beijing.

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#22

Post by surge »

randyrand wrote: post #18
kombucha11 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well she may be from HK and she gets paid by HK government but we all know she's a mainland shill and was chosen for that reason. She is 100pc in the pocket of the mainland government

how did she get elected?

I'm not certain about her, but I know many of the positions now have to be appointed or approved by the mainland government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_Appointments_System

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#23

Post by NeedMoreTea »

randyrand wrote: post #18
kombucha11 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well she may be from HK and she gets paid by HK government but we all know she's a mainland shill and was chosen for that reason. She is 100pc in the pocket of the mainland government

how did she get elected?

short version - she was appointed by Beijing.

longer version - she was elected by an electoral college carefully constructed to be pro-Beijing whilst superficially appearing representative. Votes must be publicly declared beforehand so Beijing can apply pressure.

Every single chief exec election has been a mess democratically speaking with extensive controversies, pressure from Beijing, veiled and not so veiled threats or talk of finding the trouble makers.

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#24

Post by peteretep »

ForHackernews wrote: post #21
randyrand wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how did she get elected?

The head of Hong Kong is not elected by popular suffrage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests#Backgr... > The leader of Hong Kong, the Chief executive, is currently elected by a 1200-member Election Committee, though Article 45 of the Basic Law states that "the ultimate aim is the selection of the Chief executive by universal suffrage upon nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee…

It’s worth taking a moment to reflect that the PM in the UK is also not elected by popular suffrage. The next PM will (literally) be elected by 100,000 members of the Conservative party, not by general election. It’ll be the second time in recent memory this has happened, after Gordon Brown.

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#25

Post by pishpash »

bobthepanda wrote: post #17
pishpash wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even half time to 50 years. Also, given that there is the "One Country" part, the moral argument would stand on firmer ground if that reality were recognized and the new generation of HK-only protestors paid more attention to improving China itself because, as much as it is understandable that they only care about their own wellbeing, it is having the exact opposite effect on the likelihood of them achieving…

They tried that for a really long time, but Hong Kongers have no power to affect change in China. The traditional pro-democracy camp was always about Chinese democracy and assumed that China was going to go down that path. But all those Victoria Park Tiananmen vigils were the most that anybody could achieve and those didn‘t get anything done. By the time Chinese authorities were kidnapping booksellers off the street…

China would not but that's not the target. The audience is Chinese people, but what do HK'ers do? Call them locusts and put peeing children on social media to demean them. Again, the sentiment is understandable, but they're not making their case very well with the people who ultimately matter to HK'ers because they can shape what China looks like after 2047.

You're being shortsighted if you think the Victoria Park vigils don't do anything. People watch silently but it has a bigger effect than all the loud protests combined. The strongest argument needs no words at all.

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#28

Post by agent00f »

baby wrote: post #4

Her discourse is really manipulative, in it you can find your typical attempt to divide people by focusing on the downside of demonstrations (injuries, crime, etc.), on the lie that it is a divisible bill, and on fake low numbers (10,000? more like millions). This is very concerning. It feels like Hong Kong is doomed to lose more and more of its independence, and freedom of speech, and freedom of press, as the years…

What you can count on to never be reported in the Western press is that hk wasn't a democratic society under nearly all of British colonial rule. It wasn't until right before the handover that the Brits instituted elections to create hostility between hk and China, as they had a habit of doing in their colonies like between sunnis/shiites in the middle east whenever such division benefits them.

Of course their political allies like the us can be counted on to trump up "democracy" as a wedge issue when it clearly never cared so long as hk was ruled by Brits, same as it never cared when toppling democratic leaders it doesn't like.

So please don't pretend to be the good guys given how much it insults the intelligence of anyone who's ever paid attention beyond the propaganda.

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#29

Post by magnusjonsson »

peteretep wrote: post #24
ForHackernews wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The head of Hong Kong is not elected by popular suffrage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests#Backgr... > The leader of Hong Kong, the Chief executive, is currently elected by a 1200-member Election Committee, though Article 45 of the Basic Law states that "the ultimate aim is the selection of the Chief executive by universal suffrage upon nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee…

It’s worth taking a moment to reflect that the PM in the UK is also not elected by popular suffrage. The next PM will (literally) be elected by 100,000 members of the Conservative party, not by general election. It’ll be the second time in recent memory this has happened, after Gordon Brown.

But people elect the parliament and the parliament electthe PM, so it's OK, there's a chain of accountability to the populace. In HK, the parliament has only 70 seats of the 1200-member committee, and only 35 of those are geographical constituents representing the people, the rest are "functional" constituencies mostly representing businesses). Laws have to be passed by a majority of the LegCo however, and the Chief Executive can be impeached by a 2/3 majority in the LegCo, so the LegCo is still very important. The main tragedy is that only 50% of the LegCo is elected democratically.

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#30

Post by agent00f »

acoderhasnoname wrote: post #27

As far as i understand the bill doesn't apply to those with political or religious offense. what are these people protest against?

These types of protests are largely encouraged by the West to deepen division within it's enemies, same as with sunni/shiites in the middle east, or gop/democrats by the Russians. You can tell because the West didn't give a single shit when hk wasn't democratically ruled by the Brits, but now democracy there is headline propaganda.
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