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My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

drewdevault.com

411–420 of 431 posts

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#411
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I feel like the GPL is the closest thing that programmers have to a union But unions generally exist to make their members rich. GPL has the opposite effect, it means you can't sell your code so you become poor. It's like the opposite of a union; a collective agreement among a group of professionals whereby they mutually agree to prevent each other from making money.

The programmer doesn't sell code, the programmer sells time writing software. With proprietary software, the owner of that software has a monopoly on the work on that software, and as such can demand monopoly prices. With Free Software, that monopoly doesn't exist, you only have market competition.

> that software has a monopoly on the work on that software, and as such can demand monopoly prices.

This definitely isn't true.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#412
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are copying someone else's work without complying with their license. That act, not the fact that it is GPL Right, so the correct conclusion is to never use, never contribute to and never write GPL-licensed software. Then you comply 100% with GPL, you have no legal risk and you also have money to pay for your Gatorade. In fact the best solution would just be to completely rid ourselves of GPL?

> Right, so the correct conclusion is to never use It depends on how you "use" GPL'd software. You _can_ run proprietary software on Linux. Clearly, using GPL'd and proprietary software together is legally possible. > never contribute to If simply contributing to projects licensed under GPL were such a huge problem, we would have industry-wide blacklists for employment. Contributing to _some_ projects can be a proble…

> People can and do profit off GPL'd code

how?

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a lawyer, and I really appreciated your "free" versus "fair" line. One tidbit on the GPLs: They require you to share alike if you share the software with others, but do not require you to share the software with others. You can make changes and larger programs entirely for your own or your company's internal use, and not share anything. The GPLs mention this explicitly, and implement it using concepts like "dist…

I don't believe the AGPL requires distribution of the sources unless you are exposing the software in some way. So, a company is free to run modified AGPL software on their intranet without having to offer the sources to anyone but their employees.

The first paragraph of section 13 of AGPLv3 reads:

13. Remote Network Interaction; Use with the GNU General Public License.

Notwithstanding any other provision of this License, if you modify the Program, your modified version must prominently offer all users interacting with it remotely through a computer network (if your version supports such interaction) an opportunity to receive the Corresponding Source of your version by providing access to the Corresponding Source from a network server at no charge, through some standard or customary means of facilitating copying of software. This Corresponding Source shall include the Corresponding Source for any work covered by version 3 of the GNU General Public License that is incorporated pursuant to the following paragraph.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#414
post #236

This may go either way for you, but I feel like the GPL is the closest thing that programmers have to a union. It guarantees that our obligations to users and other programmers always supersede the obligations that we have to our employer. They are a law hack that encodes professionalism. edit: it seems obvious that a doctor's obligations should be to the patient, then to medicine, then to the particular institution…

> but I feel like the GPL is the closest thing that programmers have to a union But unions generally exist to make their members rich. GPL has the opposite effect, it means you can't sell your code so you become poor. It's like the opposite of a union; a collective agreement among a group of professionals whereby they mutually agree to prevent each other from making money.

Unions generally exist to make sure their members get a living wage and healthcare, not to make them rich.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#415
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The programmer doesn't sell code, the programmer sells time writing software. With proprietary software, the owner of that software has a monopoly on the work on that software, and as such can demand monopoly prices. With Free Software, that monopoly doesn't exist, you only have market competition.

> that software has a monopoly on the work on that software, and as such can demand monopoly prices. This definitely isn't true.

Please explain?

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#416
post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that a system whose essence is to concentrate capital in a few hands, and where concentrated capital provides the power to tilt the system in your favor, is very prone to ending being fucked up. It's not that other political doesn't also suffer from this problem, but capitalism is not exempt from it.

This question screams for some quantitative analysis. What's the model, then let's crunch the numbers. Otherwise I fear we get into a yes it is, no it's not, yes it's inherently that, no it's not inherently that. What is the essence of capitalism? That private property protection extends to capital goods, they can be legally bundled up and sold and bought. Does this have any inherent dynamic about concentration? I do…

In a system of exchange, even when the rules of how exchanges take place is completely random, you necessarily end up with wealth inequality:

http://www.decisionsciencenews.com/2017/06/19/counterintuiti...

Now, in capitalism, where exchanges can be influenced more by those who have more wealth to begin with, it's pretty obvious that it will naturally lead to extreme concentration of wealth. So I don't believe this question "screams for some quantitative analysis" but there you have it anyway.

The essence of capitalism is indeed the protection of private property and the resulting dynamics will lead to the aforementioned results. I don't know how you cannot see it.

As for inequality throughout history, it is actually a pretty recent phenomenon. Considering humans have been around for 100k+ years, and that we were all pretty equal up until around 6k years ago, inequality is very much an exception in history rather than a norm. And you can make a strong argument that inequality only really took place once humans became sedentary and started to implement a practice of private property.

This is also how I think about human nature. The "nature" of hoarding and greedily taking everything and leaving your fellow humans with barely enough to scrape by is not something we have always done. In fact, we only became so successful in nature originally due to our innate capacity for co-operation and our social behaviour and language. The fact that our "nature" for over 90% of our existence was very different to the brutality of capitalism that we see today goes to show that there is no fundamental "nature" that explains inequality. It is clearly a function of the current system rather than an inevitability resulting from the nature of its participants.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#417
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why you don't need to ask for permission, just follow the license.

If you're a business, the license effectively says "you can't use this software" though, because as discussed previously it makes all the software that it touches into GPL software so you can't sell it, which is the point of a business.

You can sell GPL software. It paid my salary for years.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I'm really struggling to find the nugget of 'point' in there, but... what? Are you saying that Gravity is somehow biased toward powerful people? Are you saying that refraction is somehow biased toward powerful people? I'm left so confused by your comment. It's amazing -- hopefully in a good way!)

I believe etland might be referring to the knowledge provided by discovering the equations, rather than the natural phenomena themselves. But I may be wrong.

Yep, I'm referring to the fact that you can study, use and build on any mathematical or physics work from the past without understanding or complying with pages of what the idea of "GPL" might have looked like hundreds or even thousands of years ago.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#419
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that software has a monopoly on the work on that software, and as such can demand monopoly prices. This definitely isn't true.

Please explain?

Softwares don't form monopolies for that reason. It's easy for another programmer to go rewrite the code.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#420
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a business, the license effectively says "you can't use this software" though, because as discussed previously it makes all the software that it touches into GPL software so you can't sell it, which is the point of a business.

You can sell GPL software. It paid my salary for years.

I don't understand?
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