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Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

economist.com

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Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#151

Post by tomjen3 »

julianlam wrote: post #84
opportune wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think aviation is pretty well-suited to carbon taxes/offsets. There are only a few major players and it would be very easy to enforce. Also I think the market would rather easily bear a 30% increase in flight costs

> Also I think the market would rather easily bear a 30% increase in flight costs Was that sarcasm? Because air travel has been a race to the bottom from what I've seen

Sure, but that doesn't mean we can't pay its actual cost. I would be for that, as long as every last cent was used ofset the CO2 in the most effective way possible.

If used in any other way, forget it.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#152

Post by notahacker »

adrianN wrote: post #98
NotPaidToPost wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There certainly are wrong and undemocratic ways to "participate". Breaking the law, causing public nuisance (to say the least), putting aircrafts are risk are not acceptable.

Without breaking laws and causing public nuisance India would still be part of the British Empire and African Americans would still be second class citizens. Climate change is a vastly more serious problem than either of those two.

> Without breaking laws and causing public nuisance India would still be part of the British Empire and African Americans would still be second class citizens. Climate change is a vastly more serious problem than either of those two.

Sure, but it's also a vastly more complex problem. Those examples consisted of specific regimes which protestors wanted to change in specific ways, and making enforcing the law more trouble than it was worth for those regimes was a simple and logical route to achieving that change.

I don't see the same logical connection between the large-scale technological and institutional change across the entire globe needed to avert climate change and some guy in London with a drone ruining people's holidays.

If you're trying to achieve complex behavioural changes as opposed to rendering a bad law unenforceable, it's probably a good idea not to pursue a strategy consisting solely of irritating the general public.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#153

Post by tomjen3 »

quadrangle wrote: post #73
deevolution wrote: post #48

Surely there must be other less annoying ways to get people excited about helping the environment...

You'll gain a lot of perspective if you listen to this interview: https://teamhuman.fm/episodes/ep-127-extinction-rebellion/ Some tidbits: your comment is like saying "there surely must be less painful ways for your body to tell you to be more careful with a hammer" In a trivial sense, it's true. But real pain and annoyance is exactly what it takes for people to prioritize dealing with a problem. These sorts of thing…

Sure, but the less painful way of dealing with this problem is to charge them with terrorism and lock them away on life sentences. Sure others may try, but after a couple rounds of this, volunteers will stop. You can get young men to take great risks for great rewards, but not to rot in a prison cell somewhere with no hope of anything.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#154

Post by tomjen3 »

perfunctory wrote: post #3

Off topic. I am getting a cognitive dissonance from the statements like "The airport is part of our national infrastructure...". Heathrow is owned by Heathrow Airport Holdings, private company.

So is a bridge that is privately owned and for which motorists pay a toll.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#155

Post by pbhjpbhj »

roywiggins wrote: post #13
perfunctory wrote: post #3

Off topic. I am getting a cognitive dissonance from the statements like "The airport is part of our national infrastructure...". Heathrow is owned by Heathrow Airport Holdings, private company.

National infrastructure and nationalized infrastructure are not the same thing. Just because the airport was privatized in the 80s doesn't mean that it's not still part of the national infrastructure.

Isn't the point that it's a really important infrastructure asset, but it's privately owned and so it's not _our_ infrastructure, it doesn't belong to the nation.

Like being a serf and having to rely on your local Lord.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#156

Post by ArtDev »

This is the exact type of short-sighted activism that steps the movement back; not forward.

If you treat regular people like the enemy, expect to be treated as such.

However, if you go into it calling attention to an issue using humor and goodwill, more people might join your cause.

These people are idiots and remind me of PETA.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#157

Post by ArtDev »

ShorsHammer wrote: post #104
freebear wrote: post #47

Air travel is such a non issue, for any person flying it will of course be a large part of their carbon footprint, but the atmosphere does not care where the CO2 came from. https://insideclimatenews.org/sites/default/files/styles/icn...

Completely disagree. Airtravel has been consistently growing at 6% for a while now, there's still billions of people waiting in line to get easy access to it. As your graphic alludes to short distance regional flights can be replaced with a greener alternative, but the vast majority of flights cannot. Air travel is growing exponentially and we have no way to stop those emissions. Virtually everything else has alterna…

High-speed rail is a great alternative to short flights. Sadly, the US has no high-speed rail due to the auto-industry.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qaf6baEu0_w

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#158

Post by orbifold »

wiz21c wrote: post #116
stubish wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at this from another country, I would expect nothing else except blow back. My first thought is are we dealing with idiots, a false flag, or trolls. If this is where 'desperate measures' has led too, they are better off doing nothing. This sort of strike action isn't going to get the general population to vote green, but vote fascist.

maybe it's time for eco-fascism ?

That’s why the Green Party is so popular in Germany. Voters get to live out their authoritarian streak in a socially acceptable way. It’s not an accident they are now in power in one of the more conservative parts of Germany (Baden-Würtenberg).

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#159

Post by wtdata »

samcday wrote: post #109

The level of negativity and hostility in the comments here is really disappointing to me. I agree that XR are definitely pushing the envelope on what we consider to be reasonable activism and protest. However, I also think that the old adage "desperate times call for desperate measures" applies here. Yes, there are plenty of actions being taken to combat the damage we're inflicting to this little wet rock we all call…

> However, I also think that the old adage "desperate times call for desperate measures" applies here.

If they were really into desperate measures, their actions would be targeting China (you know, that country that now produces more CO2 than all the Western countries combined and that is set to keep greatly increasing it during the next decade), not the only set of developed countries that actually did something and greatly decreased their CO2 emissions in the last decades.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#160

Post by samcday »

tomjen3 wrote: post #145
samcday wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think they made many friends. I don't think they're interested in making friends. They're interested in trying to persuade more people to stop eating the flesh of sentient creatures when our diets don't even require it. > It's really hard getting someone to change their mind or their thinking about an issue. I agree. > But I firmly believe actively making enemies is probably not the way to go about things.…

Then they are going about it the wrong way. It is know at this point that the way to change people is to befriend them, listen to them and make sure that they see you as human, despite the differences. It worked on the Klan, it worked on the babist church. Of course it is not satisfying and you get no virtue points.

Reminds me of the proverb "Honey attracts more flies than vinegar"

I wholeheartedly agree with you that taking the time to really connect with an individual so that you can then grapple with their beliefs from a place of deep, shared understanding is more ideal.

The problem is most of the scientific community is telling us that we're heading towards dire circumstances in the next few decades. I don't think we really have the time to hold everyone's hand and bring them gently to the realization that we're all part of a massive problem that could very well threaten the continued survival of our species :(

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