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LaTeX Workflow on iPad

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Re: LaTeX Workflow on iPad

#71

Post by AceJohnny2 »

SuperTachyon wrote: post #31
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #10

I don't see TeXPad mentioned anywhere. An iOS LaTeX environment, featured here a few years ago: https://www.texpad.com/blog/latex-ported-to-ipad https://www.texpad.com/ios

Actually Texpad is mentioned in the article briefly. But, unlike its MacOS version, on iOS it’s not as very good. For example, there is no multitasking support on iPad. The package managing relies on installing pre-defined “bundles”, which don’t tell what packages are included. On the Mac version of Texpad, we can choose between its own compiler or an external one like tex live. But on iOS, the former seems to be the…

Oh that's weird, I missed it when I searched for it.

Thanks for your feedback :)

Re: LaTeX Workflow on iPad

#72

Post by robenkleene »

pjmlp wrote: post #70
robenkleene wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about web developers, then the majority literally are writing Unix daemons[1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_syste... Again, I'm not talking about what's more powerful, and I'm not saying that everyone works this way, but I am suggesting the majority of developers do need the command line to do their job. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any usage statistics for the comma…

Since we are speaking about Apple ecosystem here, most devs live in XCode. Just like we used to live on MPW and Metrowerks before. Scripting is perfectly doable from macros and IDE callable scripts.

CocoaPods, Carthage, Fastlane, git, all require the command line, and most teams use some combination of those. Not to mention Xcode literally is just a wrapper around Unix processes like `xcodebuild` and `SourceKitService`. Then there's a whole host of other support command-line utilities for doing Cocoa development like `codesign`, `xcrun`, and `xcode-select` off the top of my head.

Again, I wasn't making argument about where developers spend most of their time. Just that they need the command line as part of their workflow.

Re: LaTeX Workflow on iPad

#73

Post by _ph_ »

macintux wrote: post #40
_ph_ wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of iPads bought by those users might be just a drop in the bucket, but that is too shortsighted to look at those users. Those users are the ones who might push development of more advanced apps on the iPad, be it as developers themselves or because they would attract new app development to the iPad. Engineers and scientists might be a small market, but I think it was vital for OS X, that early on Apple lap…

I said the lost revenue if the feature were offered wasn’t important. I didn’t say anything about the value of the users.

But you cannot reasonably look at the one without considering the other.

Re: LaTeX Workflow on iPad

#74

Post by _ph_ »

pjmlp wrote: post #25
_ph_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I never used a Mac before OS X, they probably were quite usable, and your question was both rethorical and snarky. There is more than one way to use a "computer". Incidentally, I only switched to the Mac after they added a shell to it with the switch to OS X. And one of the reasons I disliked Windows was the crummy shell and lack of a terminal. Also, it is 2019 and it is no problem to get a full Linux installat…

Naturally it was snarky, because having a CLI to be an usable computer is not something that one can generalize and largely proven in the market that consumers don't give a damn about it. Which phone is sold with a full Linux distribution, with any kind of market relevance? Android certainly not, as regular Linux APIs aren't part of the NDK stable API list, which Termux actually needs to work within the constraints o…

I still don't understand why you felt it necessary to make a snarky comment. Yes, there are tons of users who never use command lines on their computers. I guess no small amount of the Mac users don't know what "Terminal" is for. But do I really on hacker news have to argue what the value of a command line for an advanced user is, especially the hacker news audience?

Re: LaTeX Workflow on iPad

#75

Post by pjmlp »

robenkleene wrote: post #72
pjmlp wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we are speaking about Apple ecosystem here, most devs live in XCode. Just like we used to live on MPW and Metrowerks before. Scripting is perfectly doable from macros and IDE callable scripts.

CocoaPods, Carthage, Fastlane, git, all require the command line, and most teams use some combination of those. Not to mention Xcode literally is just a wrapper around Unix processes like `xcodebuild` and `SourceKitService`. Then there's a whole host of other support command-line utilities for doing Cocoa development like `codesign`, `xcrun`, and `xcode-select` off the top of my head. Again, I wasn't making argument…

How many processes an IDE uses is an implementation detail.

The large majority of Apple and Microsoft developer communities live on their IDEs as part of our workflow.

Scripting and automatization can be easily done from the IDE as well, thanks to macros, REPL and build integration points.

Dropping down into a UNIX like CLI is the exception, not the norm for a large community.

Ah, but what about WSL? Well, Microsoft saw a market opportunity to win developers that buy Apple computers to do Linux work, instead of buying laptops from the likes of Dell/Asus/Tuxedo/system76 to start with.

So they are making UNIX devs comfortable on a foreign platform, just like NeXT was built on top of UNIX to take a piece of the pie from the UNIX workstation market being lead by Sun.

Using the shell was never a thing for NeXTSTEP nor classical Mac OS development workflow.

Re: LaTeX Workflow on iPad

#76

Post by pjmlp »

_ph_ wrote: post #74
pjmlp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naturally it was snarky, because having a CLI to be an usable computer is not something that one can generalize and largely proven in the market that consumers don't give a damn about it. Which phone is sold with a full Linux distribution, with any kind of market relevance? Android certainly not, as regular Linux APIs aren't part of the NDK stable API list, which Termux actually needs to work within the constraints o…

I still don't understand why you felt it necessary to make a snarky comment. Yes, there are tons of users who never use command lines on their computers. I guess no small amount of the Mac users don't know what "Terminal" is for. But do I really on hacker news have to argue what the value of a command line for an advanced user is, especially the hacker news audience?

Maybe because REPLs are more powerful that an plain old command line, and specially the HN news audience should be aware of it, given that it is built on top of a Lisp variant?

Being a developer is not a synonym for being stuck with a PDP-11 concept of how a computer is supposed to be used.

Re: LaTeX Workflow on iPad

#77

Post by _ph_ »

pjmlp wrote: post #76
_ph_ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't understand why you felt it necessary to make a snarky comment. Yes, there are tons of users who never use command lines on their computers. I guess no small amount of the Mac users don't know what "Terminal" is for. But do I really on hacker news have to argue what the value of a command line for an advanced user is, especially the hacker news audience?

Maybe because REPLs are more powerful that an plain old command line, and specially the HN news audience should be aware of it, given that it is built on top of a Lisp variant? Being a developer is not a synonym for being stuck with a PDP-11 concept of how a computer is supposed to be used.

The commenter you answered on was talking about a terminal app for the iPad in general, how do you get to repls from that? And if you want to talk about repls, why don't you do that in your original comment? You should look at the Hacker News guidelines, which in the very first item cover your post specifically.

And you don't need to teach me about repls, I am a full time Lisp programmer :).

Re: LaTeX Workflow on iPad

#78

Post by pjmlp »

_ph_ wrote: post #77
pjmlp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because REPLs are more powerful that an plain old command line, and specially the HN news audience should be aware of it, given that it is built on top of a Lisp variant? Being a developer is not a synonym for being stuck with a PDP-11 concept of how a computer is supposed to be used.

The commenter you answered on was talking about a terminal app for the iPad in general, how do you get to repls from that? And if you want to talk about repls, why don't you do that in your original comment? You should look at the Hacker News guidelines, which in the very first item cover your post specifically. And you don't need to teach me about repls, I am a full time Lisp programmer :).

Because something like Swift Playgrounds, but in the context of iPad automation is from my point of view the ultimate goal, lets call it the Dynabook Smalltalk transcript, not just replicating a green phosphor VT-100.

Re: LaTeX Workflow on iPad

#79

Post by _ph_ »

pjmlp wrote: post #78
_ph_ wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter you answered on was talking about a terminal app for the iPad in general, how do you get to repls from that? And if you want to talk about repls, why don't you do that in your original comment? You should look at the Hacker News guidelines, which in the very first item cover your post specifically. And you don't need to teach me about repls, I am a full time Lisp programmer :).

Because something like Swift Playgrounds, but in the context of iPad automation is from my point of view the ultimate goal, lets call it the Dynabook Smalltalk transcript, not just replicating a green phosphor VT-100.

I am not saying that something like that wouldn't even better.

Re: LaTeX Workflow on iPad

#80

Post by robenkleene »

pjmlp wrote: post #75
robenkleene wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CocoaPods, Carthage, Fastlane, git, all require the command line, and most teams use some combination of those. Not to mention Xcode literally is just a wrapper around Unix processes like `xcodebuild` and `SourceKitService`. Then there's a whole host of other support command-line utilities for doing Cocoa development like `codesign`, `xcrun`, and `xcode-select` off the top of my head. Again, I wasn't making argument…

How many processes an IDE uses is an implementation detail. The large majority of Apple and Microsoft developer communities live on their IDEs as part of our workflow. Scripting and automatization can be easily done from the IDE as well, thanks to macros, REPL and build integration points. Dropping down into a UNIX like CLI is the exception, not the norm for a large community. Ah, but what about WSL? Well, Microsoft…

You seem to be saying that because developers spend 90% of their time in an editor or IDE and 10% of their time on the command line, that they don't need the command line? I think that's what you are saying with this "dropping down into a UNIX like CLI is the exception, not the norm for a large community"? Because I'm not aware of any "large community" of developers that don't use the command line at all? So the exception is when they actually have to use it? But using something a small percentage of the time of course doesn't mean it isn't important (humans spend a small percentage of time eating and if we don't we die).

Regarding Xcode being implemented by managing processes, my point is that IDE's and text editors have moved to a model of using external processes to implement features. E.g., language server protocol, linters. That iOS bans this type of application is why iOS for programming is a wasteland. The tragedy of that fact is my whole point in this thread.

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