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Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

economist.com

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Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#71

Post by llukas »

briandear wrote: post #59
teachrdan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're not terrorists. Terrorists use violence (and credible threats of violence) against civilians to achieve political ends. Instead, the activists here are disrupting air traffic using nonviolent means.

That’s ridiculous. It’s disrupting air travel, no different than cutting the power to air traffic control. Protesters do not have a right to infringe on the rights of others to make their case. They can hold up signs outside the airport, but they have no right to put aircraft at risk. That is extremism.

Cutting power to air traffic control makes planes vulnerable to collisions which each other.

Flying drone causes incoming planes to divert to other airports and prevents take-offs - there is no crash risk.

> They can hold up signs outside the airport, but they have no right to put aircraft at risk. That is extremism.

You suggest they should protest where everybody can ignore them and in order to prove your point pull up false equivalences. That is NIMBY'ism.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#72

Post by aaron695 »

The IRA chose not to use mortars that could hurt anyone, so let's not say they couldn't, they planned not destroy anything it was a statement not an attack.

But given we know no existent drones at Gatwick could close a airport and create hysteria, real ones might be able to.

But ironically it will be much harder. Real drones can be found and neutralised very quickly.

Hysterical drones are a contagious meme and are hard to contain.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#73

Post by quadrangle »

deevolution wrote: post #48

Surely there must be other less annoying ways to get people excited about helping the environment...

You'll gain a lot of perspective if you listen to this interview: https://teamhuman.fm/episodes/ep-127-extinction-rebellion/

Some tidbits: your comment is like saying "there surely must be less painful ways for your body to tell you to be more careful with a hammer"

In a trivial sense, it's true. But real pain and annoyance is exactly what it takes for people to prioritize dealing with a problem. These sorts of things are a healthy immune-system flare-up showing that we're not totally doomed.

The way to avoid such annoyance is to not have let the problem get as bad as it is in the first place.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#74

Post by dev_dull »

freebear wrote: post #47

Air travel is such a non issue, for any person flying it will of course be a large part of their carbon footprint, but the atmosphere does not care where the CO2 came from. https://insideclimatenews.org/sites/default/files/styles/icn...

This is largely my problem with climate activism. It seems largely based on what's fashionable. For example, ban straws in SF even though all of the ones in the ocean come from another continent[1]. Also stop offering glasses of water because there's a drought (strangely enough the drought ended but of course the laws stick around)[2].

Now a new deal which, even if 100% effective, would only reduce global CO2 emissions by... 15%?!?[3]. To make matters worse, we're 12 years away from point of no return, but we're stubbornly refusing to build a new nuclear power plant even though things are so dire? It strikes me as unserious, happening only for show or other reasons.

1. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluti... 2. https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-aler... 3. https://cdiac.ess-dive.lbl.gov/trends/emis/top2014.tot

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#75

Post by sl1ck731 »

quadrangle wrote: post #73
deevolution wrote: post #48

Surely there must be other less annoying ways to get people excited about helping the environment...

You'll gain a lot of perspective if you listen to this interview: https://teamhuman.fm/episodes/ep-127-extinction-rebellion/ Some tidbits: your comment is like saying "there surely must be less painful ways for your body to tell you to be more careful with a hammer" In a trivial sense, it's true. But real pain and annoyance is exactly what it takes for people to prioritize dealing with a problem. These sorts of thing…

I'd be curious if there is any correlation to people's daily routines being disrupted and then having any sympathy for the protester's cause.

I mean, who is going to get stuck in the air for an extra hour, land, and say "man, those guys are right".

At worst, it would just make me feel contempt for them. At best it just invigorates the people who already were on their side.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#76

Post by macinjosh »

freebear wrote: post #47

Air travel is such a non issue, for any person flying it will of course be a large part of their carbon footprint, but the atmosphere does not care where the CO2 came from. https://insideclimatenews.org/sites/default/files/styles/icn...

What's your point? According to your link aviation emits twice as much CO2 than long distance road travel. Clearly limiting long distance travel would have an impact. Doubly so if aviation was reduced.

Yet many global elites (Obama, Macron, et. al) agree to impose heavy restrictions on vehicle emissions used to feed, transport, and employ the average citizens of their countries. Meanwhile those who can afford it take needless trips across the globe to entertain themselves.

Air travel should be limited to those that have a reason to fly that out weighs the damage it causes to the environment.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#77

Post by Lendal »

inflatableDodo wrote: post #12

>"Protesters plan a return to the airport—and there is very little the authorities can do" This line is curious. When was the first one? I mean there was the shenanigans where nobody was sure if there was even a drone, but there was in that case, as far as I am aware, no evidence for any activism beyond people saying that it might be activists. I am dubious about this reporting. If someone can show me something from…

I tend to agree. It makes no sense. If you're an activist, and you live in a democracy, why wouldn't you affect change more meaningfully by participating in the democracy you live in? Why would you buy something that itself has a carbon footprint (manufacturing, distribution) and that will only serve to politically damage the cause you purport to care about? What do you want people to do, fly only battery-powered passenger airlines? They don't exist. A climate change activist should know this.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#78

Post by dragonwriter »

Lendal wrote: post #77
inflatableDodo wrote: post #12

>"Protesters plan a return to the airport—and there is very little the authorities can do" This line is curious. When was the first one? I mean there was the shenanigans where nobody was sure if there was even a drone, but there was in that case, as far as I am aware, no evidence for any activism beyond people saying that it might be activists. I am dubious about this reporting. If someone can show me something from…

I tend to agree. It makes no sense. If you're an activist, and you live in a democracy, why wouldn't you affect change more meaningfully by participating in the democracy you live in? Why would you buy something that itself has a carbon footprint (manufacturing, distribution) and that will only serve to politically damage the cause you purport to care about? What do you want people to do, fly only battery-powered pas…

> If you're an activist, and you live in a democracy, why wouldn't you affect change more meaningfully by participating in the democracy you live in?

Attention getting stunts are an important method of participating in democracy, the primary and most effective form of such participation is influence campaigns, not voting (voting is a behavior influence campaig seek to guide, but an activist by definition seeks to have more effect through influence campaigns than they would have through their own vote.)

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#80

Post by nrb »

macinjosh wrote: post #76
freebear wrote: post #47

Air travel is such a non issue, for any person flying it will of course be a large part of their carbon footprint, but the atmosphere does not care where the CO2 came from. https://insideclimatenews.org/sites/default/files/styles/icn...

What's your point? According to your link aviation emits twice as much CO2 than long distance road travel. Clearly limiting long distance travel would have an impact. Doubly so if aviation was reduced. Yet many global elites (Obama, Macron, et. al) agree to impose heavy restrictions on vehicle emissions used to feed, transport, and employ the average citizens of their countries. Meanwhile those who can afford it take…

Absolutely not... who gets to decide what reason is good enough to fly? How about instead of reducing freedom we stop externalizing these costs, no matter their purpose or industry?
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