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Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

economist.com

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Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#61

Post by bayareanative »

henryfjordan wrote: post #55
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"With advance warning, I'm going to fly a robot into an area where your rules will require you to not fly airplanes into the airport" is quite a bit weaker (note the absence of any actual threat to the airplanes).

How is that any different from calling in a fake bomb threat?

Apply common sense: One threatens violence, the other threatens inconvenience. Duh. If a "fake bomb threat," were called, it would have no effect. Bomb threats have to be credible to have weight, which would also an act of terrorism, meant or not.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#62

Post by roywiggins »

zmmmmm wrote: post #54
roywiggins wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Provisional IRA did the same thing with bombings, and they were definitely terrorists. Not that I think these people are terrorists, but "telling everyone ahead of time" isn't an inoculation.

I know this is a "slippery slope" type argument, but if you are going equate "mild inconvenience of your flight delayed" with death and destruction, you are opening up a huge invitation for authorities to apply some pretty frightening laws to anybody who wants to protest about something. Protests have traditionally obstructed traffic or caused other inconvenience and often when notified in advance the police even hel…

I agree, it's not that different from scheduling a protest blocking a freeway.

The last people to disrupt a UK airport got arrested and charged with terrorism-adjacent charges, which was an egregious overreach. Hopefully Extinction Rebellion won't face anything similar. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/06/world/europe/uk-stansted-...

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#64

Post by dang »

frereubu wrote: post #33
gok wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they're just taking advantage of the current legal loophole that bombs and drones are treated differently, despite the fact that they can be similarly dangerous to airplanes?

You're being obtuse. The aim of a bomb is to destroy lives and property. The aim of this protest is to stop planes flying, and to do so by flagging what they're going to do weeks in advance. Just the fact that they're talking about a mass of drones might be enough to close Heathrow for the day. The fuss about the recent drone-that-wasn't shows that you may not even need to fly them for this to have an effect, and if…

> You're being obtuse.

Please edit personal swipes out of your comments here. Your comment would be just fine and much better without that bit.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#65

Post by dvtrn »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #50
dvtrn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Forcing officials hands by diverting and disrupting normal aviation activity is the exact outcome this group wants. Not a loss of life. It seems that you understand this point quite well. The response may or may not be the same if a bomb threat were called, but that’s not what happened and it seems you clearly understand this; I’m forced to then ask-why stretch the metaphor to the point of absurdity as you’v…

Um, to me it looks like you're yelling at the wrong person. I think gok is the one with the bomb threat analogy, not shaftway.

Not sure about yelling but I did indeed direct the inquiry to the wrong party. My apologies for this mistake.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#66

Post by landon32 »

freebear wrote: post #47

Air travel is such a non issue, for any person flying it will of course be a large part of their carbon footprint, but the atmosphere does not care where the CO2 came from. https://insideclimatenews.org/sites/default/files/styles/icn...

Side note: I just launched a web app for offsetting the emissions you havent been able to reduce— I’d love to hear what you think of it projectwren.com

Email is in profile if you have feedback, the goal is to get more people involved with reversing climate change

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#67

Post by Nerada »

frereubu wrote: post #21
inflatableDodo wrote: post #12

>"Protesters plan a return to the airport—and there is very little the authorities can do" This line is curious. When was the first one? I mean there was the shenanigans where nobody was sure if there was even a drone, but there was in that case, as far as I am aware, no evidence for any activism beyond people saying that it might be activists. I am dubious about this reporting. If someone can show me something from…

Nothing huge, but it did happen: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/19/extincti...

>The FOIA response said:

>in all cases UKAB has no confirmation that a drone has flown close to an aircraft other than the report made by the pilot(s). Similarly, other than from the report of the pilot(s), UKAB has no confirmation that a drone was involved.

- https://www.airproxrealitycheck.org/uk-airprox-board-reveals...

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#68

Post by roenxi »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #41
gok wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are most certainly terrorists. How is "I'm going to blow up an airplane unless you don't fly it" different from "I'm going to fly a robot into an airplane, potentially causing loss of life unless you don't fly it"? How about "I'm going to aim blinding lasers at pilot flying a plane unless you don't fly the plane?"

"With advance warning, I'm going to fly a robot into an area where your rules will require you to not fly airplanes into the airport" is quite a bit weaker (note the absence of any actual threat to the airplanes).

What, they are just making up rules for fun? If it shuts down the airport, it is because it poses a risk to planes. Otherwise they'd just ignore the drone.

They aren't trying to kill people, so they aren't colloquially terrorists, but they are purposefully introducing risk to the activity of ordinary people.

Giving warnings is more responsible than the alternatives, but it doesn't really excuse putting passengers at risk.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#69

Post by roenxi »

frereubu wrote: post #9
savant_penguin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about risking bringing down a plane with 200+ people inside

You seem to be wilfully misunderstanding. The point of naming a day is that it won't come as a surprise, and the airport will be on high alert for any drone sightings. Activists will no doubt fly the first drones somewhere very obvious, but well away from planes, at which point Heathrow will close to planes and they'll have the runways to themselves. If they take the threat seriously, Heathrow may even close to fligh…

What, so if an activist does something it is going to go exactly to plan and everyone will figure it out as they go, safely and cheerfully?

This attitude to passenger safety is completely unacceptable. Protesting is acceptable. Doing anything that disrupts airline safety and the control of the airlines over their airspace is not. The reason air flight is so safe is because they understand that that is not an acceptable way to manage threats.

We want engineering control over flights, not the clowns in Extinction Rebellion.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#70

Post by mensetmanusman »

teachrdan wrote: post #23
gok wrote: post #15

If the goal is simply to disrupt air travel, why not just call in a bomb threat?

Because they're not terrorists. Terrorists use violence (and credible threats of violence) against civilians to achieve political ends. Instead, the activists here are disrupting air traffic using nonviolent means.

Planes can crash if a drone gets sucked in the engine, so it is a bit worse than a bomb threat actually.
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