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I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

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Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#401

Post by scarface74 »

varjag wrote: post #395
scarface74 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the position. If I’m looking for a developer for yet another software as a service CRUD app, I may not need anyone that understands “CS fundamentals”. Heck it’s been 20+ years since I graduated from college with my CS degree and over a decade since I’ve had to do any low level programming. Does C++ has a standard library for RSTP? Maybe not, but I know that there are very few new problems under the sun…

You mixed up RSTP with RTSP, I would revisit my Googling skills if I were you.. making a beautiful case though for this kind of interview process. (before you go on googling again, the algorithm operates over the switch port forwarding fabric, you can't really use a library)

So are you really saying that you could not look at an open source implementation and reimplement?

https://github.com/shemminger/RSTP

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#402

Post by AgentME »

ubershmekel wrote: post #274
pault wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My resume speaks for itself. At the time of this writing, I am working with someone who has 10+ years of experience, including former positions as a lead developer. I was involved in the interview process and made the recommendation to hire, as they were able to answer a lot of domain-specific questions very well and had a good knowledge of the ecosystem. Fast-forward three months, and I am spending hours per day s…

> This person is so convinced that they are a good developer that they refuse to take direction or ask questions While I agree a coding exercise is valuable - this is the actual problem. The way I test for that humility is by asking "tell me about a time you personally did a poor job." I then follow up by asking for a time they identified a failure of a colleague. I look to see if they're empathetical, open to being…

One way to test for humility is have them do a programming challenge that isn't too difficult (it's not about whether they remember the algorithm for merge sorts), but has a few common pitfalls and arbitrary choices, and see how they react when you ask questions about their choices or make suggestions to them. Can they explain a choice? Can they follow a suggestion (or correctly and politely argue that it's unnecessary)?

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#403

Post by janee »

janee wrote: post #392
achenatx wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok Im stumped :) Would be interested to read some clarification on this. the try always throws an exception, and if i If continue returns to the beginning of the for loop then I could see that the code is pointless. But if continue resumes execution inside of dosomething the line after the exception was thrown, then it could actually be useful. Is your issue that the code does actually work, but conceptually it is ho…

Yeah it's pretty weird. Was trying to think of something that would need this exact behavior, assuming it's legit...maybe parsing some piece of text where you expect a fourth part only if the third was parsed successfully and you don't care about the outcome of the previous two ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Scenarios like this scare the bejubus outta me, it's like a business logic landmine waiting for a refactor tractor to drive over

Noooope, looking at it again it does nothing..guessing some off by one error with whatever this thing was intended to do by the author

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#404

Post by coffeefirst »

kache_ wrote: post #126

The reason that people still ask algorithmic questions is because they work for avoiding false positives. False positives are a lot more damaging to a company compared to false negatives. While algorithmic questions can get many false negatives, they don't get much false positives. What does it mean for a software developer? Spend a few hours a week doing leetcode questions. They're really not that hard.

> False positives are a lot more damaging to a company compared to false negatives.

People say this, and then they whine about how they can't find good candidates, can't find diverse candidates, etc.

They could, of course, study interviewing, treat it with the same level of seriousness you might apply to other skills, and actually learn how to evaluate people with a pretty good level of accuracy so you can avoid both problems.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#405

Post by stlava »

Is the problem that leetcode questions were used or that coding was a hard requirement for a devops position? I do screeners for my team and being able to write code is a hard requirement for us. If you can't reason through and write the equivalent of fizz-buzz it's a problem.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#406

Post by varjag »

scarface74 wrote: post #401
varjag wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mixed up RSTP with RTSP, I would revisit my Googling skills if I were you.. making a beautiful case though for this kind of interview process. (before you go on googling again, the algorithm operates over the switch port forwarding fabric, you can't really use a library)

So are you really saying that you could not look at an open source implementation and reimplement? https://github.com/shemminger/RSTP

Yes, I am saying exactly that. This is a userspace implementation not making use of switch hardware fabric. You can probably hack hardware forwarding into it (haven't looked into this, our implementation predates it by 2 years). Or you can read an RSTP spec and implement it. None of it is secret, like none of CS in general is.

Both approaches however would be beyond the skills of a programmer who can't sort an array. And really it's not a high bar, I don't understand this obsession with anti-intellecualism. Everyone likes plumbing analogies, well I wouldn't trust a plumber who doesn't know that water generally tends to flow downwards - it's this level of CS knowledge we are talking about here.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#407

Post by blub »

varjag wrote: post #385
blub wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must have written a couple dozen sorts, but only in high-school or when preparing for interviews. It's the one thing that is very well supported in most programming languages. C++ has stable/unstable sorts, partial sorts, whatever you want. Accepting things like bubble sort also makes the exercise doubly pointless.

Since people still fail it, even with all might of Google at their command, even with bubblesort allowed , it's anything but pointless. And if you are unable to sort an array it's a strong signal that command in all other areas of CS is lacking. Does C++ has a standard library for RSTP? Do you think a person who can't sort an array after 5 years of school would be able to fix a bug in a switch' spanning tree implemen…

You're looking at this the wrong way IMO. One should not give exercises and try to eliminate candidates, instead they should prepare a set of exercises so that at the end, if the candidate solves them correctly they can confidently say "this candidate knows X, Y and Z", so they should do a good job in our project.

In your case, at the end you've only figured out that your candidate knows how to sort an array, which even high-school students can do. You can confidently say that your candidate has a level somewhere between student and Donald Knuth, a pretty useless piece of information.

Is there any connection between sorting arrays and spanning trees? If I'm not mistaken, the latter involves graphs.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#408

Post by lovich »

pault wrote: post #256
SkyBelow wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There just isn't a supply of good developers for companies that aren't FAANGs or unicorns. ...at the salary you are offering. I see many people hiring adjusting for cost of living but not adjusting for the place being less desirable to live. Also, given the reputation of FAANG and similar, working for them is viewed as something of a future investment. That is a benefit your company likely cannot offer. So even if e…

No, that's why I said "before anyone says we're not paying enough...". There are team members making $2xxK/year here, and we're not in a coastal city. The problem we have is that almost every person that comes in here bombs out in the first five minutes of the interview.

If you're paying $2xxK/year and allow remote just post your job link here. I, and all my social circles, are fairly successful devs in a coastal city and would jump on any offer that high as long as we didn't have to move to the midwest

Edit: I mean this as in I know several people including myself who apply for 2xxk/year and remote. Post or dm me and I'll see what people I could send your way

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#409

Post by scarface74 »

varjag wrote: post #406
scarface74 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you really saying that you could not look at an open source implementation and reimplement? https://github.com/shemminger/RSTP

Yes, I am saying exactly that. This is a userspace implementation not making use of switch hardware fabric. You can probably hack hardware forwarding into it (haven't looked into this, our implementation predates it by 2 years). Or you can read an RSTP spec and implement it. None of it is secret, like none of CS in general is. Both approaches however would be beyond the skills of a programmer who can't sort an array.…

I’m saying that you don’t need to memorize an algorithm. For one job I had to maintain a proprietary compiler/VM/IDE that never saw the light of day outside of the company. I needed to solve an arbitrarily complex algebraic expression in a string. I had no idea how to do it. I found both algorithms I needed with a quick google search and implemented them in C - one was converting the expression to RPN and the other was implementing the “Shunting Yard Algorithm”. Would I have also been dinged because I didn’t know those two algorithms off the top of my head?

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#410

Post by matz1 »

cloverich wrote: post #269
matz1 wrote: post #31

Complaining about leetcode is unproductive. Leetcode is not even that hard, tons of material and key to the answer is on the internet. Another benefit is, its streamline job searching. You practice once and you can use the same skill to interview for many companies.

> Leetcode is not even that hard, tons of material and key to the answer is on the internet. Doesn't that support the argument a bit? Its "not that hard" -- so even someone who _doesn't_ have the requisite experience could learn it? So its just another hoop to jump through, _before_ they validate whether you are a good fit for the job in the first place. That's what people are complaining about.

Yes, it is another hop to jump through.

>so even someone who _doesn't_ have the requisite experience could learn it?

I consider it a plus. Every company use different technology and different way to do things. Not to mention it keep changing all the time. With a standardize test, even though I don't have the experience with the technology they use, i can still have have a shot.

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