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My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

drewdevault.com

321–330 of 431 posts

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Replying to lone_haxx0r here, as the thread went dead while I was writing this): > Why don't you 'steal' from your own pocket and help the poor? See? That's exactly what I was referring to with "frowned upon by those who see capitalism as an ethical system" and with "capitalism has an enormous blind spot" . There's a rational argument perfectly consistent with libertarian free market principles, by which a governmen…

> - You were signed into that contract by your parents when you were born, as they had the legal authority over your rights to decide on your behalf. > - As soon as you legally become an adult, you can step out of that social contract by leaving the country at any time. By remaining in your country, you consent to its social contract, so you pay taxes to the government by your own will. This is where you're wrong. By…

> you could justify any political system, including monarchy, dictatorships, etc. as long as people can leave the country

Exactly! Can you point at how precisely this is "wrong"? I thought that was the essence of libertarian free-market capitalism as described by people who propose it, that any possible consensual arrangement is valid as long as it is entered without coertion and it doesn't affect third parties? (Sometimes, even when it affects third parties; I've lost count how many times free-market proponents will skip over the topic of externalities, abandon the conversation when politely pointing them to the externalities involved, or simply insisting that those externalities could be magically solved by applyinng more private property to the problem).

It's not a system I personally believe in, but the people proposing it always put it in those absolute terms, with "private property" being an absolute moral value, and any system (like taxes) which limit it being considered evil; so hey - what's wrong with exploring it to its ultimate logical consequences, just from an unconventional angle? Or maybe rationalism is only valid when you use it to arrive to the same exact consequences that you started with?? Playing devil's advocate to show the contradictions of an ideologic system is a valid argumentation strategy.

> You might as well say: "If you don't like the country you were born in, just kill yourself." because you're rejecting the discussion about justice entirely.

Not at all. I'm merely exploring a definition of justice different from "private property good, government intervention bad" that I inferred from your comment considering tax-supported social programs as a "steal".

> That would work if switching countries had a negligible cost

People proposing free markets as the ultimate moral good typically do not take into consideration these concerns of the cost suffered by the people who least benefit from applying the immutable axioms; in my experience, they will justify people suffering poverty because they have a plausible way of escape by engaging in private initiative and consensual contracts. So how exactly is that way of thinking, that I have often encountered in the wild, any different from my thought experiment above?

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#322

This may go either way for you, but I feel like the GPL is the closest thing that programmers have to a union. It guarantees that our obligations to users and other programmers always supersede the obligations that we have to our employer. They are a law hack that encodes professionalism. edit: it seems obvious that a doctor's obligations should be to the patient, then to medicine, then to the particular institution…

My problem with the GPL philosophy is that I can't find the mechanism that results in more general access to code in the world, when releasing your software as GPL versus BSD/MIT. What determines what's out there in the world, the decision to release source versus simply doesn't come down to "well I can use this GPL code as part of my project if I also GPL it, so I guess I'll share my code too." The decisions about w…

The GPL is the one reason why there is one "mainline" Linux kernel and a number of roughly compatible distributions rather than the incompatible chaos of the Unix wars of the '80s and '90s.

Take a look at imake and autoconf if you need convincing that the GPL is valuable.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#323
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really think any of what you said is actually true. There are many types of software project where the license doesn't matter at all - what matters is that the software exists. Someone is willing to pay to get it made, and they don't really give a hoot about "licensing". I believe this actually constitutes the majority of software - it's just invisible because no one really has much incentive to release it. B…

If somebody doesn't care about licensing, then it's trivial to convince them to use open source whether or not they want to tightly integrate with GPL code, so the GPL aspect isn't increasing the amount of open source software. Your hardware driver example is pretty much the only example I can find where somebody is actually incentivized to release code, and willing to go against other concerns; so I appreciate that…

20 years before clang, MIT style licenses resulted in a huge number of duplicate, incompatible systems along with a general inability to improve software, to the extent that Windows became the de-facto industry standard OS.

There's a reason gcc became the best of breed compiler before llvm came along.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The programmer doesn't sell code, the programmer sells time writing software. With proprietary software, the owner of that software has a monopoly on the work on that software, and as such can demand monopoly prices. With Free Software, that monopoly doesn't exist, you only have market competition.

You did a switch-a-roo between the perspective of individual programmers to the perspective of organizations that produce software, and I think that doing so muddies the situation a bit. Whether programmers sell their code or their time doesn't seem that important to me. (I've seen it work out both ways.) What is more important to me is what they're paid in. Personally, I like to get paid in money, because I can easi…

> You did a switch-a-roo between the perspective of individual programmers to the perspective of organizations that produce software, and I think that doing so muddies the situation a bit.

The comment I replied to talked about programmers, and I was also talking about programmers, so ... where did I supposedly do that?

> Personally, I like to get paid in money, because I can easily turn money into things like food and shelter.

And how is that relevant to the question of licences? Do people who hire you to work on GPL software not pay you for your work?! What difference does it make to you in that situation whether the result of the hour of work that you are paid for is licenced under GPL or under a proprietary licencse?

> Also, point of pedantry: Simply owning exclusive rights to a particular piece of software does not give you a monopoly, and framing things in such hyperbolic terms does not do anything to advance the conversation.

OK, so, suppose you have worked for a few years on a proprietary code base, you know your way around it, you are an expert on that code base and how to extend and modify it. If your claim is true that the owner of that software does not have a monopoly on work on that software, please explain how you can use your expertise on that code base to earn money without working for or with the permission of the owner of that software?

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#325
post #192

Here's my rant of the day: The meme that the GPL is "less free" sounds very Orwellian. What it really means is that I cannot freely use someone else's creation without restriction, and that I have to respect the wishes of the original author about how their work should be used. That is because GPL was intended to be a hack on the copyright system (hence "copyleft"), but it always respected the idea of copyright - it…

Made me remember the free software song.

    When we have enough free software
    At our call, hackers, at our call,
    We'll kick out those dirty licenses
    Ever more, hackers, ever more.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#326

I have a feeling that the jury is still out on this one. My observations are that: * MIT license increases adoption of OS projects, increasing pool of potential contributors and derivative works * People like sharing what they create, hence derivative works are likely to be shared with the world as well. I know there are companies that utilize tons of free code without contributing enough back. Overall to me the diff…

Historically, this is false. See Sun, HP, SGI, IBM, and a good host of others.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#327

I agree with the author that the GPL engenders a sharing atmosphere, and given its wild success, much more than any other license. It would be amazing if all software could be like this, but you also need to take into account how you're going to make money, and not just for subsistence, as a sustained income so people can take up a job, enjoy a decent life, and save some $ for retirement. Only a handful of high profi…

... Linux?

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt any licensing makes your phone more stable, but if it were unstable, the GPL would certainly certainly make it easier/cheaper to fix.

> I doubt any licensing makes your phone more stable Sure it does. Without open-source software to base their work on, Apple would have had to start from scratch and possibly never get the project into a usable state. (In fact, they did actually try several multiple times to replace Mac OS 9 with an in-house-developed OS, before eventually buying NeXT, whose OS was rebranded as OS X and ultimately became iOS).

NeXTSTEP, by the way, was a proprietary OS based on the MIT licensed Mach and BSD code.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#329
post #256
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, if its a permissive license then the company makes changes to it which break it so that it's less secure and the end user can't even check that (or ask someone to check that) it's not broken. Then the user ends up suffering because they didn't have the choice in the matter of using to be able to check if everything is ok. This is even worse because it pretends making security better but does not deliver. Then it…

This is illogical because (1) why would the company break the algorithm? (2) it's relatively easy to hide backdoors in plain sight (it just looks like poorly written code)

Incompetence is the simple answer.

Re: My Personal Journey from MIT to GPL

#330
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism is about providing others with products and services they want.

Capitalism is not "about" anything really. It's a description that sometimes applies (if private individuals can own (and buy/sell) equity, and operate the means of production for profit) to economies. Of course there are good and bad parts, of course there are good and bad implementations/representations/manifestations of such big concepts. For example using a price system and voluntary exchange is usually a great w…

I'd say that a system whose essence is to concentrate capital in a few hands, and where concentrated capital provides the power to tilt the system in your favor, is very prone to ending being fucked up. It's not that other political doesn't also suffer from this problem, but capitalism is not exempt from it.
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