I would not believe you were making $500 MRR if you put it in a public repo. So consider that carefully. Better off spending time writing your resume well.
Ask HN: Landing a programming job by virtue of a side project only?
31–39 of 39 posts
Re: Ask HN: Landing a programming job by virtue of a side project only?
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can certainly have a degree in CS and suck, but the odds of that happening are much lower than with people who don’t have a CS degree. Why should I waste the resources if I have enough decent candidates? The rockstar developer is kind of a myth. If you compile 100 applicants into the 5-8 best ones, then the truth is that you could probably hire any of them and get good results. That doesn’t mean self-educated peo…
Haha, the opposite of what you're arguing is true. Anyone can get a CS degree without knowing how to program, you can make up the credits with all the irrelevant, purely academic, formal CS stuff. But no-one can be a self-taught programmer, actually create a whole app, and lack the fundamental ability of being able to write a basic program.
I think everyone can learn to write an app by following a few YouTube videos. This is how we’ve got our project managers and lean-operators to write RPA projects in python after all.
On the flip side, I’ve never personally met anyone who went through 5 years of university and came out knowing nothing.
The thing with CS is that it’s not the programming itself that’s actually valuable. It’s being able to create efficient, safe and maintainable code. If you can’t tell me the bigO of your program, if you don’t know how to remove the top node of a binary search tree or if you think using NPM packages to do simple computation is a good idea, then I just can’t use you, because it’ll be way too expensive to teach you.
If you suck at our specific tooling, but have already proven you can obtain a university degree, then I know that I can re-school you relatively cheap by sending you on a few courses.
I’m sorry this is rubbing non-educated programmers wrong, but an education is actually valuable, and it will be increasingly so as the younger generations are all getting them.
Re: Ask HN: Landing a programming job by virtue of a side project only?
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’ve hired a lot of people, I do a lot of networking and I work as an examiner for CS students, I’ve never seen someone who was self-educated remotely compare to someone with a degree. It just doesn’t happen in a country where anyone who wants to put in the work can get a degree. Which was kind of my point. The people who failed to get a degree are typically the people who won’t become great when they are self-taught…
You've already said you never hire self-taught programmers so how would you know? We have a lot of self-taught programmers in my generation in the UK (I think mainly because of the BBC micro programme for schools a few decades ago). I've seen awful CS educated programmers and I've seen awful self-taught ones. The two best programmers I know, one was self-taught and one was not. The worst programmer I've ever known wa…
Well I do interview self-taught people when their CVs are stellar, but I’ve yet to find one that was the better option.
I’m sure you can potentially get a CS degree and never learn anything but I don’t get the point that makes. I wouldn’t hire those people either. I don’t think it’s true though. I’ve never met anyone who went through 5 years of university without picking up anything useful.
Re: Ask HN: Landing a programming job by virtue of a side project only?
#34Honestly, having a $500 MRR side projects tells me nothing about your coding skills, and would not inspire me to interview you for a coding job. What it would inspire me to interview you for is an junior PO role. You found a problem, built a solution, got a few customers, and have kept them happy. The skills to do that are not related to the coding -- they are product design/ownership skills.
> You found a problem, built a solution, got a few customers, and have kept them happy. The skills to do that are not related to the coding If it's a software solution, the idea that the skills for the “built a solution” part of that are not related to coding seems to be generally untrue. Yes, a solo project of the type involved more than coding skills, but product owner skills without tech skills don't call forth so…
"not related to coding" and "not related to coding skills" are not the same thing.
Many people can fight through learning enough code to whip out an MVP. But did they do it effectively, or did they spend 3 months doing what most coders do in 3 days? Did they do it well, or is it brittle code that needs major refactoring?
So while you are right that coding has to happen, I stand by the original statement that the mere presence of code does not inspire me to interview the person who created it.
Re: Ask HN: Landing a programming job by virtue of a side project only?
#35The solution to both your problems is the same: advertising your product (either that financial widget or yourself).
If you learnt to advertise yourself effectively, getting a job as a self taught developer should be a breeze.
Conversely, if you learnt to advertise your financial widget so that it paid you a full-time salary, you could effectively hire yourself and continue building more products.
Re: Ask HN: Landing a programming job by virtue of a side project only?
#36I know you think you want a programming job, but try to avoid it. I was in a similar position to you years ago. When you start working for other Sr. Dev etc, they will break your spirit and add levels of code bureaucracy and egos. This doesn't include the arguments about naming variables.
Just keep working on your own projects. Who cares if it's spaghetti code, you are making money, those people you interview with are working for the man, you are not.
Creative, drive and initiative (the talents you used to build your own web site and make it profitable) are talents not found in programming. Coders and Sr. Devs who see that you have those talents will soon extinguish those positive traits from character.
Sent from a government office... Help I'm trapped.
Re: Ask HN: Landing a programming job by virtue of a side project only?
#37I know you think you want a programming job, but try to avoid it. I was in a similar position to you years ago. When you start working for other Sr. Dev etc, they will break your spirit and add levels of code bureaucracy and egos. This doesn't include the arguments about naming variables. Just keep working on your own projects. Who cares if it's spaghetti code, you are making money, those people you interview with ar…
Keep fighting, it will be a long battle but worth it in the end.
1. Do some human networking/meet ups. This is completely under rated and the returns are infinite.
2. Upwork.com, it take about 10 proposal before you get some work. It works over time.
Here is some inspiration... https://glenmccallum.com/2019/05/14/senior-developers-reject...
https://selftaught.blog/self-taught-programmer-jack-dorsey-b... second paragraph.
Re: Ask HN: Landing a programming job by virtue of a side project only?
#38Thank you to all commenters. I'd be hard-pressed to find this kind of advice in any other community, let alone for free, and I appreciate each of you taking the time. I've had a day to reflect, and have decided to remain focused on my product and continue to subsidize through freelancing and non-tech work.
I realize now that I didn't give enough consideration to what would be imperative to an employer and the largest change from my experience working solo - functioning as a team member. I'm a lone wolf, and while I don't think that's inherently right or wrong, it's how I deliver my best work.
I think perhaps I'll revisit this idea in the future with my improved perspective, but for now I know that what I truly want is to support myself with a product I can call my own, even if it comes at the expense of a heftier paycheque.
Re: Ask HN: Landing a programming job by virtue of a side project only?
#39I have no formal education.
YES! Side projects are the best way to demonstrate you know what you know.
1) YES! A million times YES! When recruiting people I don't care about their degree I know how academia works I know its all talk no walk, I want proof and a public repo is the best way to do that.
2) When searching for jobs search your skills (php / javascript) not a job title.
Your biggest selling point is that you are a self starter. If there is something you don't know you will just learn it, while the academics sit on their ass waiting for some one to show them. Its hard to understate how much of a massive advantage this is, especially to business minded people.
3) Yes
Your biggest obstacle will be self doubt or over confidence, don't bull shit if there is something you don't know just stick to your winning attitude.