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Gorilla Youngsters Seen Dismantling Poachers’ Traps (2012)

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Re: Gorilla Youngsters Seen Dismantling Poachers’ Traps (2012)

#31

Post by tsumnia »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #12

> "No we can't teach them," she said. "We try as much as we can to not interfere with the gorillas. We don't want to affect their natural behavior." Tsk. Like the Prime Directive but in the real world. Well, isn't it the natural behaviour of gorillas to learn? If they can learn by observing humans, without the humans specifically intending it, then what's so different, or unethical, if it's done with intent? I think…

> If they can learn by observing humans, without the humans specifically intending it, then what's so different, or unethical, if it's done with intent?

I think this might interfere with some research involving the gorillas. You cannot study their natural behaviors if you are assisting them. Not to say there isn't research teams looking to train gorillas, my point is that may not be THEIR focus. While they cannot control for poachers, they can control for them own interactions. Furthermore, not to slippery slope, but to what end do you believe they should be allowed to interfere? If, say, a diseased food source begins to decimate the group that could be prevented through cooking, should the researchers attempt to teach them how to cook the food source to kill the bacteria?

Re: Gorilla Youngsters Seen Dismantling Poachers’ Traps (2012)

#32

Post by NikolaeVarius »

warent wrote: post #16
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #12

> "No we can't teach them," she said. "We try as much as we can to not interfere with the gorillas. We don't want to affect their natural behavior." Tsk. Like the Prime Directive but in the real world. Well, isn't it the natural behaviour of gorillas to learn? If they can learn by observing humans, without the humans specifically intending it, then what's so different, or unethical, if it's done with intent? I think…

Exactly. It's more natural to allow humans to poach them out of existence than it is to potentially equip them to protect themselves from the same?

Yes, hunting is a thing

Re: Gorilla Youngsters Seen Dismantling Poachers’ Traps (2012)

#34

Post by ajna91 »

swebs wrote: post #26

>Bush-meat hunters set thousands of rope-and-branch snares in Rwanda's Volcanoes National Park, where the mountain gorillas live. The traps are intended for antelope and other species but sometimes capture the apes. >The hunters, Vecellio said, seem to have no interest in the gorillas. Even small apes, which would be relatively easy to carry away for sale, are left to die. Pretty misleading for the title to blame poa…

If someone breaks into your house to steal your TV, knocks over a candle, doesn't put out the fire and leaves. Are they not to blame for the fire even if they were only interested in the TV?

Re: Gorilla Youngsters Seen Dismantling Poachers’ Traps (2012)

#36

Post by anigbrowl »

tsumnia wrote: post #31
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #12

> "No we can't teach them," she said. "We try as much as we can to not interfere with the gorillas. We don't want to affect their natural behavior." Tsk. Like the Prime Directive but in the real world. Well, isn't it the natural behaviour of gorillas to learn? If they can learn by observing humans, without the humans specifically intending it, then what's so different, or unethical, if it's done with intent? I think…

> If they can learn by observing humans, without the humans specifically intending it, then what's so different, or unethical, if it's done with intent? I think this might interfere with some research involving the gorillas. You cannot study their natural behaviors if you are assisting them. Not to say there isn't research teams looking to train gorillas, my point is that may not be THEIR focus. While they cannot con…

It's a lot harder to study them if they're dead. I'm heartily in favor of assisting them to the extent they want to learn, it's possible that the more effort we make to communicate the more we'll learn ourselves.

Also, if they're capable of learning then they're sapient by definition which means we have some moral obligations to them rather than being disinterested observers, because it's our species that is trying to kill them.

Perhaps we should start considering them as different species of people rather than mere livestock.

Re: Gorilla Youngsters Seen Dismantling Poachers’ Traps (2012)

#37

Post by gridlockd »

tsumnia wrote: post #31
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #12

> "No we can't teach them," she said. "We try as much as we can to not interfere with the gorillas. We don't want to affect their natural behavior." Tsk. Like the Prime Directive but in the real world. Well, isn't it the natural behaviour of gorillas to learn? If they can learn by observing humans, without the humans specifically intending it, then what's so different, or unethical, if it's done with intent? I think…

> If they can learn by observing humans, without the humans specifically intending it, then what's so different, or unethical, if it's done with intent? I think this might interfere with some research involving the gorillas. You cannot study their natural behaviors if you are assisting them. Not to say there isn't research teams looking to train gorillas, my point is that may not be THEIR focus. While they cannot con…

> I think this might interfere with some research involving the gorillas. You cannot study their natural behaviors if you are assisting them.

I think this is a very poor argument. First of all, conservation trumps research. Secondly, their environment already isn't "natural" when it has got snare traps in it.

> If, say, a diseased food source begins to decimate the group that could be prevented through cooking, should the researchers attempt to teach them how to cook the food source to kill the bacteria?

Seems far-fetched, but in principle: Yes, why the hell not?

Re: Gorilla Youngsters Seen Dismantling Poachers’ Traps (2012)

#38

Post by AngryData »

magduf wrote: post #14
whatshisface wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A gorilla doesn't need a tool to kill a person - have you ever seen a gorilla?

The problem here is that poachers could have guns, so even though gorillas are extremely strong, and a gorilla with a knife is a scary prospect close-up, a poacher with a gun wouldn't have much problem killing the gorilla. The solution is simple: give guns to gorillas and teach them to shoot them. Now we'll have gorilla warfare...

Give them javelins and teach them how to use them. It will certainly solve the poaching problem!

Re: Gorilla Youngsters Seen Dismantling Poachers’ Traps (2012)

#39

Post by gridlockd »

xwdv wrote: post #17
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #12

> "No we can't teach them," she said. "We try as much as we can to not interfere with the gorillas. We don't want to affect their natural behavior." Tsk. Like the Prime Directive but in the real world. Well, isn't it the natural behaviour of gorillas to learn? If they can learn by observing humans, without the humans specifically intending it, then what's so different, or unethical, if it's done with intent? I think…

I feel that if any human was found to be teaching gorillas how to do human things, they would ultimately suffer punishment like Prometheus who taught humans how to use the fire of the gods.

1) Prometheus isn't real

2) The punishment of Prometheus is based on him being immortal. Humans would die after the first round.

You're going to die anyway, being a martyr for the gorilla revolution doesn't seem like the worst way to go.

Re: Gorilla Youngsters Seen Dismantling Poachers’ Traps (2012)

#40

Post by frosted-flakes »

viach wrote: post #20
0xFFFE wrote: post #13

I wonder if we should show them how to write software?

Not software probably, but could be a plan B for Uber's "driverless" cars.

That's probably not as stupid as it sounds. Well, actually it is, but if horses can drive their carriages autonomously, could we teach gorillas to do the same for cars?
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