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Less Processed Meat, More Plant-Based Foods May Boost Longevity

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Re: Less Processed Meat, More Plant-Based Foods May Boost Longevity

#121

Post by ShlomoS »

adrianN wrote: post #120
ShlomoS wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you have any (semi-)scientific references that support your opinion? Does arithmetic count? The stats are available to look up yourself, the math is simple to do. But there's nobody funding publishing "debunk vegan nonsense" papers like there are people funding "make up vegan nonsense". So the only people you can find doing the math for you are just random people like the blog I link to later in this post. >I agr…

You'd think that the meat industry would pay for debunking vegan nonsense papers, especially when the world starts talking about a carbon tax that would make beef a lot more expensive if they use the numbers I cited. But I'll read the links you provided and update my opinion. Thanks for looking them up for me.

>You'd think that the meat industry would pay for debunking vegan nonsense papers

They mainly seem interested in making emotional appeals, although they are probably right in that it is a better return on investment for them.

Re: Less Processed Meat, More Plant-Based Foods May Boost Longevity

#122

Post by tfehring »

nerdponx wrote: post #94
rajekas wrote: post #82

To be honest, I don't get the mania for processed meat substitutes when there's excellent vegetarian/vegan fare from cuisines that have been doing it for millennia. As an Indian brought up in a vegetarian family, I had no inkling or desire to eat meat until I came to the US for grad school. One day I had this niggling doubt that I continued to be a vegetarian for cultural rather than ethical reasons. I tested that hy…

To be honest, I don't get the mania for processed meat substitutes when there's excellent vegetarian/vegan fare from cuisines that have been doing it for millennia. There's a term for vegans who don't actually eat whole foods: "french fry vegan". It's as derisive as it sounds. If you're eating processed meat substitutes all the time as a vegetarian, IMO you aren't doing it right. I'm sure plenty of other people would…

> If you're eating processed meat substitutes all the time as a vegetarian, IMO you aren't doing it right. I'm sure plenty of other people would agree.

I couldn't disagree more. The vast majority of vegans are vegan primarily for religious reasons or because of animal welfare and/or environmental concerns (see, e.g., [0]). Heavily processed plant-based foods clearly address the religious and animal welfare considerations, and I suspect they're far more environmentally friendly than animal products despite the energy used to process and ship them.

Avoiding heavily processed foods is a good idea in general. But it's orthogonal to veganism. And eating heavily processed foods doesn't invalidate the benefits of veganism - aside from the health benefits, which are the primary concern for only a slim minority of vegans.

[0] https://vomadlife.com/blogs/news/why-people-go-vegan-2019-gl... - I assume this understates the share who cite religious reasons because of the bias toward English-speaking countries.

Re: Less Processed Meat, More Plant-Based Foods May Boost Longevity

#123

Post by aaron695 »

> "Processed meats typically contain high amounts of sodium and preservatives," Hu says. In addition, high-heat cooking methods, such as grilling, can produce carcinogens. And recent research has linked high red meat consumption — especially processed meats — with less diversity and abundance of healthy bacteria in the gut. "This may contribute to an increased risk,"

They are literally throwing darts at a dart board.

This medical industry is corrupt beyond repair. It needs disruption.

Re: Less Processed Meat, More Plant-Based Foods May Boost Longevity

#124

Post by _nosaj »

looeee wrote: post #7
tunnuz wrote: post #3

With more and more people switching to vegetarian and vegan fake meats, I'd be interested in understanding what is the wisdom on highly processed vegetable-based foods.

It's simple. Avoid them, just as you should avoid processed meat. Easy less processed food, and lots of fruit, veg, fiber, and protein from whatever source you like. That's the key to a healthy diet.

A good heuristic for this is don't eat anything that, in its purest form, wasn't around 10,000 years ago.

Re: Less Processed Meat, More Plant-Based Foods May Boost Longevity

#125

Post by _nosaj »

hvidgaard wrote: post #76
cageface wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge sums are being spent to confuse consumers. Reliable research has actually been pretty consistent for decades and repeatedly implicates dietary cholesterol and saturated fat in a variety of diseases.

> Reliable research has actually been pretty consistent for decades and repeatedly implicates dietary cholesterol and saturated fat in a variety of diseases. That is simply not true. Cholesterol are split in at least 2 different groups. HDL and LDL, the good and the bad respectively. But it's not the whole picture, a subgroup of LDL is considered mostly harmless as it rarely crosses into the bloodstream. The number t…

I don't understand why this is getting down voted.

Here's a clip of Dr Rhonda Patrick, who is incredibly well informed on the effects of dietary cholesterol, basically saying the same thing: https://youtu.be/VnYeuES3joc

Re: Less Processed Meat, More Plant-Based Foods May Boost Longevity

#126

Post by kaybe »

ianai wrote: post #85
kaybe wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found a method that leaves them together for 3 months. That's an improvement at least. (Of course that means that the calf will take most -but not all- of the milk during that time. But then it is stated that the cost for the vet goes down a lot in exchange.) Another option I found is to give several calves to one cow for 6 months, which has advantages and disadvantages compared to the first way. (Longer time with…

That’s still plenty abusive.

Thinking about it a while, I'd say let's not let the perfect stand in the way of the better.

Re: Less Processed Meat, More Plant-Based Foods May Boost Longevity

#127

Post by techstrategist »

ShlomoS wrote: post #118
techstrategist wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just a blog post on Harvard.edu Which is more authoritative than a comment on HN. I believe it’s on you to find a more authoritative source that contradicts the above.

Blog posts and HN posts have an equal lack of authority. Authority does not matter though, facts do. You can look up the levels of oxalates, phytates, PUFAs, etc from whatever source you like and confirm reality. You don't need an "authority" to tell you what to think.

>Blog posts and HN posts have an equal lack of authority.

I agree that ultimately facts are what matter, but I disagree on this point. In the real world where it's not possible to author or reference a peer-reviewed research study for every statement or decision you'd like to make, this authority has value.

TThe administrators of Harvard Medical School, a well respected university, were willing to publish this content on a domain they controlled. This implies that some trusted expert at this trusted institution authored, reviewed, and published this content. This means that they don't believe that this content is so inaccurate as to expose the institution to a reputation loss, as opposed to say www.fake-health-expert.example.com. In fact, this may have more authority than a peer-reviewed study that doesn't properly disclose its funding by e.g. the dairy or sugar industry.

This skin in the game of reputational risk is orders of magnitude different than your or my reputational risk by posting a comment to HN.

Re: Less Processed Meat, More Plant-Based Foods May Boost Longevity

#128

Post by ShlomoS »

techstrategist wrote: post #127
ShlomoS wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blog posts and HN posts have an equal lack of authority. Authority does not matter though, facts do. You can look up the levels of oxalates, phytates, PUFAs, etc from whatever source you like and confirm reality. You don't need an "authority" to tell you what to think.

>Blog posts and HN posts have an equal lack of authority. I agree that ultimately facts are what matter, but I disagree on this point. In the real world where it's not possible to author or reference a peer-reviewed research study for every statement or decision you'd like to make, this authority has value. TThe administrators of Harvard Medical School, a well respected university, were willing to publish this conten…

>This implies that some trusted expert at this trusted institution authored, reviewed, and published this content.

No it does not. It is a blog post. Tons of people have blogs on that domain. There is absolutely no standard of authority or correctness involved. You are falsely inferring that there are trusted experts involved. There is no factual basis for that belief.

Re: Less Processed Meat, More Plant-Based Foods May Boost Longevity

#129

Post by paulluuk »

thrower123 wrote: post #96
paulluuk wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also cause way less suffering in the world, which is something I believe is very much worth striving for.

If you have so much as tried to grow a garden, much less farm at scale, you have a lot less sympathy for animals and their destructiveness. When you have racoons coming along at night knocking down your corn for the sheer hell of it, and not even eating it, or porcupines doing the same thing, or crows plucking out the stocks just as soon as they poke out of the ground, or deer mowing flat anything that isn't encased…

It's almost as if you've built your garden right in the middle of their habitat.

But seriously, I come from a family of farmers, and I know that the things that farmers do to animals is way worse than anything you've described here.

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