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Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

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Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#111

Post by chimeracoder »

Symmetry wrote: post #98
chimeracoder wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could drugs approved by European regulators be allowed without FDA approval? Why should they be? It's not like European regulators have a better track record than the FDA here.

Well, Propranolol was available in Europe for its main indication about a decade earlier than it was allowed in the US saving 10,000s of lives. European drug regulation encourages competition in ways that provide for about a dozen EpiPen equivalents rather than just one provider that can jack up its price to $1000. You can buy sunscreen that blocks both UVA and UVB in Europe, though the FDA is thinking about maybe al…

> European drug regulation encourages competition in ways that provide for about a dozen EpiPen equivalents rather than just one provider that can jack up its price to $1000.

This has literally nothing to do with FDA approval of NMEs.

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#112

Post by Qwertystop »

sp332 wrote: post #107
EvanAnderson wrote: post #87

I found this one from the table of reversals to be interesting: Article: Efficacy of infant simulator programmes to prevent teenage pregnancy: a school-based cluster randomised controlled trial in Western Australia Summary: The infant simulator is an example of persuasion technology or captology, where the use is intended to prevent teenage pregnancy.26 Their use is widespread in developed countries27 and is expandin…

That would only explain part of the effect. It wouldn't explain why the number of abortions went up by 50%.

Potentially, the subset of those girls who felt encouraged and then changed their minds.

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#113

Post by hurrdurr2 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #108
hurrdurr2 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have never dealt with people from local jurisdictions, such as from the local city government or county governments, and even up to the state. I hate to say it, but every one of these folks I have encountered falls into two categories: 1. Recent college graduates who don't know much if anything, 2. People who have worked a government job for a long time but have little intellectual capacity to understand…

I deal with people in local, city, county, and state governments all the time. Haven't met many recent college graduates, as they don't usually have the experience to land a government job. Have met a few old-timers. But otherwise almost all of them were efficient, helpful, and good at their jobs. In the specialized departments, they definitely had the intellectual capacity to understand complex subjects and could ha…

I guess I need to find a job in your area then, because my experiences here are the pits.

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#115

Post by Symmetry »

chimeracoder wrote: post #111
Symmetry wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Propranolol was available in Europe for its main indication about a decade earlier than it was allowed in the US saving 10,000s of lives. European drug regulation encourages competition in ways that provide for about a dozen EpiPen equivalents rather than just one provider that can jack up its price to $1000. You can buy sunscreen that blocks both UVA and UVB in Europe, though the FDA is thinking about maybe al…

> European drug regulation encourages competition in ways that provide for about a dozen EpiPen equivalents rather than just one provider that can jack up its price to $1000. This has literally nothing to do with FDA approval of NMEs.

No, but it is a reason you might want to be able to buy drugs imported from Europe.

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#116

Post by [deleted] »

rscho wrote: post #62
Macross8299 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do they get it wrong? Yes, occasionally. Not frequently. Occasionally. But that also, is science. The FDA follows rigorous statistical procedures, but even p The issue is that there is a huge lack of transparency. When a third of the studies involved in approval of anti-depressants were withheld from the public [0] and even some withheld at the insistence of the FDA [1], what good do low P-values do? Hard to trust t…

Well, current medical research is not really science, more of a sort of office politics with added prestige and financial incentive. Actually you can read all the papers you want, you have no guarantee that what's on paper is what happened. Academic and industrial misconduct and epidemiological ignorance are so prevalent in the field that it's more akin to a religious cult. No, unfortunately I'm not being pessimistic…

[deleted]

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#117

Post by DanBC »

geggam wrote: post #86
addicted wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense. The anti vaxxers place far more trust on someone who is known to have falsified data, and committed egregious malpractice. The anti vaxxers lack of trust in the media has almost nothing to do with what the media may or may not have done to lose trust. The actual difference is that one side does not have a good explanation for what causes autism, and as a result admits that they don’t have the answer…

You dont need that falsified data to come to the conclusion vaccinations in the US are a problem. Remove it from the picture. Compare the US vaccination schedule to any other develop country. Compare our infant mortality rate. Aside from the differences in the vaccination schedules what is the US doing different from other developed nations. Keeping in mind infants do little but eat food, sleep and see a doctor. So i…

> Compare our infant mortality rate.

Part of the problem is that the US uses a weird definition for infant mortality that makes it hard to compare across countries.

But even after accounting for that the US is still worse than other countries, and we don't know why.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4856058/

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#118

Post by chimeracoder »

Symmetry wrote: post #115
chimeracoder wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> European drug regulation encourages competition in ways that provide for about a dozen EpiPen equivalents rather than just one provider that can jack up its price to $1000. This has literally nothing to do with FDA approval of NMEs.

No, but it is a reason you might want to be able to buy drugs imported from Europe.

> No, but it is a reason you might want to be able to buy drugs imported from Europe.

Which is illegal in itself, for reasons that have nothing to do with FDA approval or the issues relevant to this article.

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#119

Post by ljf »

sp332 wrote: post #107
EvanAnderson wrote: post #87

I found this one from the table of reversals to be interesting: Article: Efficacy of infant simulator programmes to prevent teenage pregnancy: a school-based cluster randomised controlled trial in Western Australia Summary: The infant simulator is an example of persuasion technology or captology, where the use is intended to prevent teenage pregnancy.26 Their use is widespread in developed countries27 and is expandin…

That would only explain part of the effect. It wouldn't explain why the number of abortions went up by 50%.

I can't find the study now, but I read previously that even filling in a questionare asking about tennagers sexual history (or lack of) increases the chance of those teenagers having children and abortions. I assume at that in some level this seeds the idea of sex and babies in a group that might have not had that thought, opportunity or imputus otherwise.

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#120

Post by nwallin »

criley2 wrote: post #33
geggam wrote: post #22

Frankly, Me and most of America think the FDA approves things according to the highest bidder. This is one of the biggest contributing factors to the anti vax movement. | The trust in our govt and all govt agencies is simply gone.

Anti-vax comes from anti-intellectualism, just like your opinion does. Two sides of the same coin. It has nothing to do with "trust in agencies" and everything to do with intellectualism. We live in a society where academics, data, evidence, etc are all maligned. How can you trust in an agency if you aren't willing to trust anyone at all? The cancer is not trust in agencies, it's your culture of anti-intellectualism…

I'm inclined to agree with you, however the FDA has problems with a lack of transparency. A pharmaceutical company can run 20 studies, and show one result to the FDA that shows safety and efficacy with p any other type of science, should be pre-registered with the FDA, and the results of those studies should be made public, regardless of their findings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-registration_(science)

https://www.xkcd.com/882/

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