Brazil wins legal fight over 100M-year-old fossil bounty • Hacker News Board

Re: Brazil wins legal fight over 100M-year-old fossil bounty

#11

Post by polartx » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

ptah wrote: post #4

Now if we can just get a courtcase similarto this one for the entire contents of the British museum and other artifacts looted by pirates like this one: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/26/westminster-ab...

IMO there should be a limited period of time for which nations can lay claim to 'artifacts', especially when considerable effort to recover them is expended by a private party. Take for example the Odyssey group that spent years tracking down, and excavating treasure from an 1804 spanish vessel off the coast of Portugal (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/01/treasure-trove...). There's no reason that a judge in Atlanta, should be able to force a private company to return 200+ year old property found near Portugal, to Spain that was lost in a dispute with the British.

Re: Brazil wins legal fight over 100M-year-old fossil bounty

#12

Post by samcday » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

Stories like this are kinda amusing when you consider that what it essentially boils down to is this. Some collections of carbon imbued with sentience are squabbling over who "owns" some other collections of carbon that were sentient a few millions years ago.

Maybe a hundred million years from now something will be deciding who gets to own the carbon remnants of the people involved in this current predicament :)

Re: Brazil wins legal fight over 100M-year-old fossil bounty

#13

Post by zorked » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #7

ptah wrote: post #4

Now if we can just get a courtcase similarto this one for the entire contents of the British museum and other artifacts looted by pirates like this one: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/26/westminster-ab...

I would suggest that if it was not the British Museum then someone else would have these treasures and they would probably be tucked away far from public view or possibly destroyed through lack of maintenance. I would not mind them being returned if they were guaranteed to remain in good condition and in public ownership. That may be possible now but for a long time it wasn't.

Still looting though.

Re: Brazil wins legal fight over 100M-year-old fossil bounty

#14

Post by knolax » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

polartx wrote: post #11

ptah wrote: post #4

Now if we can just get a courtcase similarto this one for the entire contents of the British museum and other artifacts looted by pirates like this one: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/26/westminster-ab...

IMO there should be a limited period of time for which nations can lay claim to 'artifacts', especially when considerable effort to recover them is expended by a private party. Take for example the Odyssey group that spent years tracking down, and excavating treasure from an 1804 spanish vessel off the coast of Portugal ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/01/treasure-trove... ). There's no reason that a judg…

That's an entirely different situation to the one GP linked. In your case the artifacts were excavated but in his case they were literally seized violently. It's even more egregious in his case because not only did the artifact have cultural significance, it had religious significance that was being violated.

Re: Brazil wins legal fight over 100M-year-old fossil bounty

#15

Post by oh_sigh » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

ptah wrote: post #4

Now if we can just get a courtcase similarto this one for the entire contents of the British museum and other artifacts looted by pirates like this one: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/26/westminster-ab...

I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been vigilante action to get historical artifacts returned from certain countries that looted all over the world (mostly England/France/Spain).

Re: Brazil wins legal fight over 100M-year-old fossil bounty

#16

Post by knolax » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 6:04 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #7

ptah wrote: post #4

Now if we can just get a courtcase similarto this one for the entire contents of the British museum and other artifacts looted by pirates like this one: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/26/westminster-ab...

I would suggest that if it was not the British Museum then someone else would have these treasures and they would probably be tucked away far from public view or possibly destroyed through lack of maintenance. I would not mind them being returned if they were guaranteed to remain in good condition and in public ownership. That may be possible now but for a long time it wasn't.

Who's to say the British Museum are the best equipped to maintain the artifacts? Why would you expect an organization that acquired these artifacts through violence to be able to properly take care of them, or even understand their significance? In GP's example the British are literally committing blasphemy against one of the artifacts. And this is for an Ethiopian artifact, which belongs to arguably the same religious group as the British, and is from a region the British have been aware of for more than a thousand years.

> they would probably be tucked away far from public view

IIRC for most museums the vast majority of items aren't on display either because they're not suitable for public display or because there simply isn't enough space to display them.

Re: Brazil wins legal fight over 100M-year-old fossil bounty

#17

Post by RHSeeger » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #15

ptah wrote: post #4

Now if we can just get a courtcase similarto this one for the entire contents of the British museum and other artifacts looted by pirates like this one: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/26/westminster-ab...

I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been vigilante action to get historical artifacts returned from certain countries that looted all over the world (mostly England/France/Spain).

Maybe vigilante, maybe not... https://news.artnet.com/art-world/chinese-art-being-stolen-a...

Re: Brazil wins legal fight over 100M-year-old fossil bounty

#18

Post by cambalache » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 6:34 PM UTC

zorked wrote: post #13

celticninja wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suggest that if it was not the British Museum then someone else would have these treasures and they would probably be tucked away far from public view or possibly destroyed through lack of maintenance. I would not mind them being returned if they were guaranteed to remain in good condition and in public ownership. That may be possible now but for a long time it wasn't.

Still looting though.

It is not when the British do it.

Re: Brazil wins legal fight over 100M-year-old fossil bounty

#19

Post by ialwaysforgetm » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

dosbre wrote: post #3

I'm not sure that's the best destiny for the fossil. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2018/09/news-muse...

Yeah, since it's already in France, better store it in one of their churches!

Re: Brazil wins legal fight over 100M-year-old fossil bounty

#20

Post by Shivetya » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 9:39 PM UTC

polartx wrote: post #11

ptah wrote: post #4

Now if we can just get a courtcase similarto this one for the entire contents of the British museum and other artifacts looted by pirates like this one: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/26/westminster-ab...

IMO there should be a limited period of time for which nations can lay claim to 'artifacts', especially when considerable effort to recover them is expended by a private party. Take for example the Odyssey group that spent years tracking down, and excavating treasure from an 1804 spanish vessel off the coast of Portugal ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/01/treasure-trove... ). There's no reason that a judg…

I look at it from this standpoint. It is highly unlikely in many parts of the world that the government now laying claim to an artifact has any relationship to the government if any at the time that existed in the same area. Just because you live in the same area should not automatically be an absolute right.

The care of the artifact must be weighed against those who seek to claim it.

Even items freely given have had attempts to take them back. I also am greatly concerned with antiquities returning to areas which have experience real strife if not outright wars. Especially the rash of religion based conflicts even between sects of the same. We have seen the destruction visited upon irreplaceable sites and this must be a consideration before any object is sent to a claimant.