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Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

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Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#31

Post by geggam »

ims wrote: post #28
geggam wrote: post #22

Frankly, Me and most of America think the FDA approves things according to the highest bidder. This is one of the biggest contributing factors to the anti vax movement. | The trust in our govt and all govt agencies is simply gone.

> Me and most of America think the FDA approves things according to the highest bidder. Why do you think this?

Here is one example

https://ivn.us/2013/02/11/the-revolving-door-fda-and-the-mon...

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#32

Post by ghaff »

dannykwells wrote: post #18

Everyone yelling about how the FDA is corrupt or should only screen for safety are completely ignorant of history and basic facts. Medicine is not like trying out a new coding framework - in some cases, like cancer: i) There is no ability to "try it out for your self" - you are either all in or not ii) There are extreme risks to taking the drug (most cancer drugs are actually somewhat to extreme toxic...just less tox…

>Data sharing is very very hard given the sensitivity of the information (patient data) - making it effectively impossible to have an open data exchange. (This is also due to the billions of dollars at stake on the pharma side).

There is promising work going on in this area to allow the sharing of models while maintaining privacy. (Differential privacy, homomorphic encryption, multi-party computation, etc.)

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#33

Post by criley2 »

geggam wrote: post #22

Frankly, Me and most of America think the FDA approves things according to the highest bidder. This is one of the biggest contributing factors to the anti vax movement. | The trust in our govt and all govt agencies is simply gone.

Anti-vax comes from anti-intellectualism, just like your opinion does. Two sides of the same coin.

It has nothing to do with "trust in agencies" and everything to do with intellectualism. We live in a society where academics, data, evidence, etc are all maligned.

How can you trust in an agency if you aren't willing to trust anyone at all?

The cancer is not trust in agencies, it's your culture of anti-intellectualism itself.

Trust experts or die.

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#35

Post by geggam »

criley2 wrote: post #33
geggam wrote: post #22

Frankly, Me and most of America think the FDA approves things according to the highest bidder. This is one of the biggest contributing factors to the anti vax movement. | The trust in our govt and all govt agencies is simply gone.

Anti-vax comes from anti-intellectualism, just like your opinion does. Two sides of the same coin. It has nothing to do with "trust in agencies" and everything to do with intellectualism. We live in a society where academics, data, evidence, etc are all maligned. How can you trust in an agency if you aren't willing to trust anyone at all? The cancer is not trust in agencies, it's your culture of anti-intellectualism…

Good way to convince people...

Call them stupid ;)

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#37

Post by gumby »

geggam wrote: post #22

Frankly, Me and most of America think the FDA approves things according to the highest bidder. This is one of the biggest contributing factors to the anti vax movement. | The trust in our govt and all govt agencies is simply gone.

You pay hardly anything to the agency -- their fees are a rounding error compared to all your other costs. And while it's valuable for some jobs to have on your resume that you used to work there, so many people have done so over the years that it doesn't raise any salaries; it's merely that for certain regulatory roles it's good to have someone who knows what it's like to receive the filings so you can make them clear.

It's utterly unlike the legislator->lobbyist revenue model or, say, the Department of the Interior where the regulators were doing drugs and having sex with employees of the companies they were regulating. It's more like "oh, you worked on DevOps at $LARGE_COMPANY_X, our needs are similar to theirs." Not the magic path to riches.

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#38

Post by delecti »

naringas wrote: post #16

[flagged]

What you're suggesting already exists. Nobody gets the smallbox vaccine anymore. People only get the rabies vaccine after exposure. There are a handful of vaccines you only need if you're traveling to certain international destinations [1]. The set of vaccines that everyone gets is already subset that everyone needs. And because of people expressing unfounded "skepticism" like this, we're getting outbreaks of diseases that were being kept at bay by the vaccines.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/features/vaccines-travel/index.html

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#39

Post by whiddershins »

dannykwells wrote: post #18

Everyone yelling about how the FDA is corrupt or should only screen for safety are completely ignorant of history and basic facts. Medicine is not like trying out a new coding framework - in some cases, like cancer: i) There is no ability to "try it out for your self" - you are either all in or not ii) There are extreme risks to taking the drug (most cancer drugs are actually somewhat to extreme toxic...just less tox…

Also it’s important to understand the context that medicine wasn’t originally “scientific “ for all the reasons you are touching on.

Historically treatments were based on some theory of how the body works, and a plausible intervention either based job that model, or based on tradition and anecdotal experience.

As people tried to implement more empiricism it hits all the difficulties you mention and others ... it’s an extremely difficult ugly challenge.

We should have lots of medical reversals. It means we are slowly getting better. Probably things could move faster if there was some giant anonymized database of every patient treatment, with documentation of symptoms, intervention, and outcome.

There are so many reasons why that is impractical, I’m astonished we are making the progress we are.

Re: Nearly 400 medical devices, procedures and practices found ineffective in study

#40

Post by skybrian »

dannykwells wrote: post #18

Everyone yelling about how the FDA is corrupt or should only screen for safety are completely ignorant of history and basic facts. Medicine is not like trying out a new coding framework - in some cases, like cancer: i) There is no ability to "try it out for your self" - you are either all in or not ii) There are extreme risks to taking the drug (most cancer drugs are actually somewhat to extreme toxic...just less tox…

This is true, but there may be moderate reforms that would work. Could drugs approved by European regulators be allowed without FDA approval? Which regulators do a better job?
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