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Introducing a new HTML element – welcome

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Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#91

Post by jakelazaroff »

scarface74 wrote: post #80
jakelazaroff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS has less than 15% market share globally. https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/os

That’s a nice and (irrelevant) statistic. No one targets a “global” audience with a website. If I’m targeting North America, Europe, or Japan, why do I care that a billion people in India use Android phones? Even in countries where iOS is a sliver of the overall population like China and India, if you want to reach the affluent population, you still need to target iOS users. How fast do you think someone creating a w…

North America is about the only significant market where iOS has a ton of market share, and the world is not North America. If you're targeting Europe, iOS has only 25% [1]. Not sure why you said Japan instead of Asia, but iOS market share there is less than 15%; even worse than it is worldwide [2].

People don't have their browser choices etched in stone, and Google's services are a powerful form of persuasion. If they work in Chrome but not other browsers, people will just switch to Chrome.

It's not 2009 anymore. iOS simply doesn't give Apple the power to stop Google here.

[1] http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe

[2] http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/asia

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#92

Post by ChrisSD »

dccoolgai wrote: post #83
giancarlostoro wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been repeating the Chrome is the new IE meme for the last few years. I even had a boss that only cared about our code working on Chrome and would lose it when I was demoing / developing from FireFox. I only ever demoed in Chrome just to feed that illusion that I was adhering to Chrome but I honestly dont see anything special or better and I still made sure it behaved and worked the same in both. I know people…

I don't really agree with the "Chrome is the new IE" sentiment. They participate in the Web Standards process the same as anyone else. That their voice has different gravity in the process due to the fact that they are often the ones pushing the standards forward isn't something they should be compared to IE for. Devs old enough to recall the halcyon days of IE know it was quite different...

It is different but not necessarily better. Where IE got really bad is when they stopped developing it. Development really slowed after 5.5 and once 6 was the undisputed champion they just left it to rot. Whatever else can be claimed about Chrome, they're not idle.

TBH I think if you want a slogan then "Google is the new AOL" is better. When you look at what their doing across technologies it looks more like reinventing AOL's walled browser for the modern age.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#93

Post by privateSFacct »

This example would work better if they were pointing out an addition that really sucked.

Yes - google has been pushing web forward with QUIC and many many other elements.

Seeing Microsoft and other pushing back on something like toast (IE was a crapshow of stupidity for developers) is ironic. toast is going to be welcomed.

The problem is that microsofts additions are things like clippy or cortana in windows which few people want. Seriously, look at windows 10 and the cortana addition (forced in many cases) and ask -> did users WANT this, do users LIKE this.

Toast is going to be picked up happily. If microsoft tries to jam Cortana down IE users throats they are going to be in for a rude surprise.

The reason for google's dominance is in part because of how seriously they have taken the browser.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#94

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

thehodge wrote: post #2

With some UIs on the modern web, I’d love for clippy to appear and tell me what to do

"You seem to be having some trouble. The text over here is clickable, but the text right next to it, which looks basically the same isn't. Simple, right? I love 'buttons'!"

"You seem to be having some trouble. I find clicking on everything randomly until you figure out what each piece of the web-page does works best for me!"

"You seem to be having some trouble - have you tried using this website on a phone?"

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#95

Post by zylent »

geezerjay wrote: post #90
richthegeek wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if nothing else it's shockingly bad semantics. If Android called them Turds, would that be any better or worse semantically?

A "toast" means a few words of salutation. That's the purpose of the Toast UI element. A user requests an action, the action returns a successful response, the user receives a message consisting of a few words announcing the success. Just because you are oblivious to the concept it doesn't mean it's bad. It just means you need to learn something before blindly asserting that stuff you don't know and are not familiar…

The point is, "because android does it" is terrible reasoning for naming the thing.

It's exactly the point the author here was trying to make. Google does not control the web or define HTML standards in a vacuum, nor is it the focal point of the internet.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#97

Post by friedegg »

ChrisSD wrote: post #92
dccoolgai wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really agree with the "Chrome is the new IE" sentiment. They participate in the Web Standards process the same as anyone else. That their voice has different gravity in the process due to the fact that they are often the ones pushing the standards forward isn't something they should be compared to IE for. Devs old enough to recall the halcyon days of IE know it was quite different...

It is different but not necessarily better. Where IE got really bad is when they stopped developing it. Development really slowed after 5.5 and once 6 was the undisputed champion they just left it to rot. Whatever else can be claimed about Chrome, they're not idle. TBH I think if you want a slogan then "Google is the new AOL" is better. When you look at what their doing across technologies it looks more like reinvent…

Obviously every Google product is different, but how many Google products have reached maturity only for Google to basically stop, and then eventually discontinue it after eliminating the competition in the interim?

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#99

Post by scarface74 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #91
scarface74 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a nice and (irrelevant) statistic. No one targets a “global” audience with a website. If I’m targeting North America, Europe, or Japan, why do I care that a billion people in India use Android phones? Even in countries where iOS is a sliver of the overall population like China and India, if you want to reach the affluent population, you still need to target iOS users. How fast do you think someone creating a w…

North America is about the only significant market where iOS has a ton of market share, and the world is not North America. If you're targeting Europe, iOS has only 25% [1]. Not sure why you said Japan instead of Asia, but iOS market share there is less than 15%; even worse than it is worldwide [2]. People don't have their browser choices etched in stone, and Google's services are a powerful form of persuasion. If th…

Because “Asia” includes a lot of poorer countries. People go where the money is.

http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/japan

And that still doesn’t negate my other point, if you exclude iOS, you miss the most affluent users. Who do you think is the most profitable market segment? People buying $50 Android phones or people buying $700 iPhones?

Apple doesn’t have to “stop” Google. If Apple doesn’t support it, either web developers wont use it because no one is going to give up their most affluent customers or they are going to be forced to write an app.

Again, if I’m writing a website for the US, why do I care about the worldwide market share?

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#100

Post by ChrisSD »

friedegg wrote: post #97
ChrisSD wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is different but not necessarily better. Where IE got really bad is when they stopped developing it. Development really slowed after 5.5 and once 6 was the undisputed champion they just left it to rot. Whatever else can be claimed about Chrome, they're not idle. TBH I think if you want a slogan then "Google is the new AOL" is better. When you look at what their doing across technologies it looks more like reinvent…

Obviously every Google product is different, but how many Google products have reached maturity only for Google to basically stop, and then eventually discontinue it after eliminating the competition in the interim?

Chrome and AMP do seem to be part of Google's long term strategy. I don't see them dropping either anytime soon. Well ok they may drop AMP if they finally get it all integrated into the various web specs. but that's a distinction without a difference.
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