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Introducing a new HTML element – welcome

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Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#71

Post by rb666 »

OnlyOneCannolo wrote: post #34
giancarlostoro wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been repeating the Chrome is the new IE meme for the last few years. I even had a boss that only cared about our code working on Chrome and would lose it when I was demoing / developing from FireFox. I only ever demoed in Chrome just to feed that illusion that I was adhering to Chrome but I honestly dont see anything special or better and I still made sure it behaved and worked the same in both. I know people…

I try switching from Chrome to Firefox at least once a year, but the UI design keeps me firmly entrenched as a Chrome user.

I felt the same but honestly you get used to it in a couple days. I'm never going back!

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#72

Post by dangerface »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #55
synesso wrote: post #27

I guess Microsoft's attempt to use their superior marketshare to kill web standards back in the 90s is too long ago for the irony of this to resonate.

Maybe MS wants to reconsider stopping development of Edge. I think it might give them a lot of positive publicity without astroturfing.

If google is the new Microsoft does that make bing the new google? I suddenly have the urge to try it for the first time.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#73

Post by Aeolun »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #56
mbreese wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in the middle of trying this exercise now. Some of the differences are just getting used to new design. For me the most jarring thing is how Firefox’s omnibar works. It isn’t good at showing me the sites I’m looking for after typing just a few characters. Instead, it shows absolutely every page I’ve recently visited at one of those sites. Another design thing is the amount of information on the default new page h…

> For me the most jarring thing is how Firefox’s omnibar works. It isn’t good at showing me the sites I’m looking for after typing just a few characters. Instead, it shows absolutely every page I’ve recently visited at one of those sites. Interesting! I think this may be a case where, over time, as you use a search mechanism, you get used to the kinds of searches that work well with that mechanism. I've had similarly…

When I type in ‘news.’ Firefox still gives me ‘hackernewsgrid.com’ as the first result, even though I haven’t visited that page in years, and in fact it is completely down.

I’m not sure how the omnibar works, but I’m not extremely impressed.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#74

Post by vcavallo »

richthegeek wrote: post #42
xtf wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply put: Don't write for chrome, write w3c conform. Or better: Use standards which match most browsers at caniuse.com

That only works if everyone does it. At the moment some people develop only for Chrome because it has the most market share. So they deploy their site using the thing and suddenly people using Firefox are wondering why things are broken. At this point Firefox can either implement the new feature(s) or lose users. And once FF etc. have implemented it suddenly it's on caniuse.com as "works in all modern browsers".

> that only works if everyone does it

which is probably why OP is suggesting it

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#75

Post by nerd7473 »

moreira wrote: post #13

The person writing this has to repeat frequently that they're OK with the element; it's quite funny how hard they try not to upset people. But their view of the situation is completely correct; just because this one feature might be useful (heck, when Microsoft dumped XMLHttpRequest on us that was incredible too), doesn't change the fact that we're now living in a web where Google does whatever it wants, adds whateve…

If I don't like something, I'm going to talk about it. The plusses, and the minuses. You can't have everything in life and that is the way I veiw everything (although that has little to do with these odd new html tags).

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#76

Post by finchisko »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #38
OnlyOneCannolo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try switching from Chrome to Firefox at least once a year, but the UI design keeps me firmly entrenched as a Chrome user.

What aspect of the Firefox UI bothers you?

What bothers me, are dialogs and windows not written in html and css (not sure what it is, maybe XUL?). Chrome basically eats it own dog food = everything is html. Firefox still has settings done in non html way. It may sound marginal problem to you, but IMO browser should be showcase for html and html should be used everywhere. Also amount of popup dialogs/windows should be reduced. Again settings, about, ... should be html page, instead of popup window, which cannot be until it's rewritten as html page (so it's related to my first point).

FYI: I use Firefox for idealogical reasons.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#77

Post by sovande »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #38
OnlyOneCannolo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try switching from Chrome to Firefox at least once a year, but the UI design keeps me firmly entrenched as a Chrome user.

What aspect of the Firefox UI bothers you?

Not the OP, but I'll chip in with my $.02. I really want to like Firefox, but everything UI feels wrong (on macOS). From tabs, where the close button is on the wrong side (right) and if you click the + button to open a new tab the cursor ends up over the new tab, not over the + button so you can click again to open a new tab. The whole UI looks and feels non-native. Pressing ESC in full screen mode does not bring the window back to its original size. In-page search opens a clunky (javascript?) search field in the bottom status bar. Firefox does not support proper macOS dark-mode (try cmd-O). Cannot print to PDF. (Magic mouse) gestures does not work. No automatic keychain integration for login forms. Fonts are rendered different than in Chrome and Safari, e.g. thin fonts are tick and font's in general look more ugly (something with antialiasing?). The list goes on and on. Basically Firefox feels like browser version of Slack.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#78

Post by zimbatm »

Crinus wrote: post #53
tannhaeuser wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference though: when Firefox was launched, it was still possible to develop a browser from scratch (like Opera was doing back then), and hence lively competition. Nowadays, with WHATWG HTML's feature creep (the HTML "living standard" spec alone weighing in at 1250 pages and 13.3 MB as a PDF, plus tens of CSS specs all over the place, and JavaScript a moving target), that's infeasible for even a nation-s…

I do not think it is impossible, Firefox alone has rewritten several of its major components at least once. I see it more as a self-fulfilling prophecy and a constant stream of FUD from naysayers whenever such a thing is merely suggested (with popular topics being that it will never be finished, it will not be secure, if mozilla needs $500m/year how mere humans will ever be able to do it, etc). I think that a lot of…

This seems like a really strange position to fight over. OP is mainly complaining about the constant flux of the spec. At the time were KHTML was being implemented there weren't new features being released every week like we have now. In every aspect of the browser.

As a single developer it is impossible to implement a browser that is compatible with today's websites.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#79

Post by mbreese »

Aeolun wrote: post #73
JoshTriplett wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me the most jarring thing is how Firefox’s omnibar works. It isn’t good at showing me the sites I’m looking for after typing just a few characters. Instead, it shows absolutely every page I’ve recently visited at one of those sites. Interesting! I think this may be a case where, over time, as you use a search mechanism, you get used to the kinds of searches that work well with that mechanism. I've had similarly…

When I type in ‘news.’ Firefox still gives me ‘hackernewsgrid.com’ as the first result, even though I haven’t visited that page in years, and in fact it is completely down. I’m not sure how the omnibar works, but I’m not extremely impressed.

When I type “n”, I’m likely either going to news.google.com or HN. Firefox will guess correctly that I’m thinking of HN and fills that in as the URL. However, the main HN URL and Google News are something like 8 and 9 in the list. Everything above those two is a mix of things that happen to have an “n” somewhere in the URL that I may have recently visited.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#80

Post by scarface74 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #69
scarface74 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google implements something an Apple doesn’t on the iPhone then what?

iOS has less than 15% market share globally. https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/os

That’s a nice and (irrelevant) statistic. No one targets a “global” audience with a website. If I’m targeting North America, Europe, or Japan, why do I care that a billion people in India use Android phones? Even in countries where iOS is a sliver of the overall population like China and India, if you want to reach the affluent population, you still need to target iOS users.

How fast do you think someone creating a website in the US will get fired if they said they are going to ignore iOS users because iOS is only 15% of the global market?

If iOS didn’t matter do you think Google would be paying Apple a reported $9 billion a year to be the default search engine?

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