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Introducing a new HTML element – welcome

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Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#41

Post by mstade »

jl6 wrote: post #28

Unlike the author, I do not think is a good idea. Elements are supposed to express semantics, but this just suggests behaviour. Not very descriptive behaviour either - since when does actual real-life toast smoothly rise and fall again? Possibly from the ceiling or coming in from the side? Why not just call it ? Or even better, don’t add anything - it’s surely just a that needs styling and animating with existing CSS…

I've read the explainer but I still don't think I understand what this toast element is supposed to do. Also, am I correct in understanding that it is pretty much useless without javascript?

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#42

Post by richthegeek »

xtf wrote: post #39
moreira wrote: post #13

The person writing this has to repeat frequently that they're OK with the element; it's quite funny how hard they try not to upset people. But their view of the situation is completely correct; just because this one feature might be useful (heck, when Microsoft dumped XMLHttpRequest on us that was incredible too), doesn't change the fact that we're now living in a web where Google does whatever it wants, adds whateve…

Simply put: Don't write for chrome, write w3c conform. Or better: Use standards which match most browsers at caniuse.com

That only works if everyone does it.

At the moment some people develop only for Chrome because it has the most market share. So they deploy their site using the thing and suddenly people using Firefox are wondering why things are broken. At this point Firefox can either implement the new feature(s) or lose users. And once FF etc. have implemented it suddenly it's on caniuse.com as "works in all modern browsers".

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#43

Post by richthegeek »

geezerjay wrote: post #33
jl6 wrote: post #28

Unlike the author, I do not think is a good idea. Elements are supposed to express semantics, but this just suggests behaviour. Not very descriptive behaviour either - since when does actual real-life toast smoothly rise and fall again? Possibly from the ceiling or coming in from the side? Why not just call it ? Or even better, don’t add anything - it’s surely just a that needs styling and animating with existing CSS…

> Why not just call it ? In Android land, a "toast" is a particular implementation of a notification. https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/ui/notifiers/toas...

So if nothing else it's shockingly bad semantics. If Android called them Turds, would that be any better or worse semantically?

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#44

Post by giancarlostoro »

OnlyOneCannolo wrote: post #34
giancarlostoro wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been repeating the Chrome is the new IE meme for the last few years. I even had a boss that only cared about our code working on Chrome and would lose it when I was demoing / developing from FireFox. I only ever demoed in Chrome just to feed that illusion that I was adhering to Chrome but I honestly dont see anything special or better and I still made sure it behaved and worked the same in both. I know people…

I try switching from Chrome to Firefox at least once a year, but the UI design keeps me firmly entrenched as a Chrome user.

Not sure how legit this is, I'm with another commenter, I don't care for the Chrome UI but maybe this might help:

https://gist.github.com/tjespe/aeb514aaff6f4ca4d97afe476e360...

Looks like somebody updated the Firefox Quantum UI to look more like Chrome.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#45

Post by mbreese »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #38
OnlyOneCannolo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try switching from Chrome to Firefox at least once a year, but the UI design keeps me firmly entrenched as a Chrome user.

What aspect of the Firefox UI bothers you?

I’m in the middle of trying this exercise now. Some of the differences are just getting used to new design.

For me the most jarring thing is how Firefox’s omnibar works. It isn’t good at showing me the sites I’m looking for after typing just a few characters. Instead, it shows absolutely every page I’ve recently visited at one of those sites.

Another design thing is the amount of information on the default new page has a ton more info than I’m used to seeing (or really want to see). Hence a question I posted yesterday:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20167192

On iOS, I keep trying to pull to refresh pages, but in Firefox it’s a specific button. But this is something that I could get used to.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#46

Post by Insanity »

tech2 wrote: post #35
OnlyOneCannolo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try switching from Chrome to Firefox at least once a year, but the UI design keeps me firmly entrenched as a Chrome user.

Interestingly I try Chrome once every which and go right back to Firefox for exactly the same reason. I find the Chrome UI intolerable. Tiny tabs, inflexible GUI, less interesting extensions, etc. I also tend to use _many_ tabs (grouped by topic I'm working on) so maybe I'm a bit of an unusual case.

It is probably a quite subjective thing. I use Firefox as main browser but test things in Chrome. Neither UI really bothers me, but I prefer Firefox for ideological reasons. The dev tools in chrome are better though imo.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#47

Post by JoshTriplett »

DCoder wrote: post #10

For another and possibly more egregious example, look at Chrome's handling [0]. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ar1qj1/x/egl52...

The user (via their user-agent) should be in complete control of autocomplete, and sites that think otherwise are broken. Mechanisms to specify the semantic nature of a field are great; by all means, make it easy for a user-agent to know what to fill in. But "autocomplete=off" was originally invented because a few large sites (archaic bank sites of the same type that did browser detection and rejected any browser they didn't recognize) wanted to prevent users from using their browser to remember their password. That's not something the site should have control over.

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#48

Post by JoshTriplett »

mschuster91 wrote: post #7
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like you're having some trouble understanding the purposes of our many different circular icons with squiggly things inside them, would you like some help?

No thanks but sensible alt attributes and hover labels would be a great start ;)

That just results in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_meat_navigation

Re: Introducing a new HTML element – welcome <clippy>

#49

Post by bluerobotcat »

jl6 wrote: post #28

Unlike the author, I do not think is a good idea. Elements are supposed to express semantics, but this just suggests behaviour. Not very descriptive behaviour either - since when does actual real-life toast smoothly rise and fall again? Possibly from the ceiling or coming in from the side? Why not just call it ? Or even better, don’t add anything - it’s surely just a that needs styling and animating with existing CSS…

I never even realized that that's why it was named toast. I thought it was named after the act of giving a toast (a speech).
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