Apple Reveals ‘Lisa’, Its $50M Gamble (1983) • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Reveals ‘Lisa’, Its $50M Gamble (1983)

#51

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 12:02 AM UTC

ttul wrote: post #13

gilbetron wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$25k after inflation. I had no idea it was that expensive!

The IBM PC in 1981 cost $4,500 to $8,500 in today's money. The original Mac would cost $6,000 if released today. Computers have become a great deal cheaper in the ensuing decades.

Bill Machrone, long-time editor of PC Magazine, coined a "law" that the computer you wanted always cost $5,000. Which held reasonably true for a rather long time. It broke down maybe about 10 years ago although, as with the latest Mac, you can still get to $5K without too many gymnastics for pro video work or high end gaming.

Re: Apple Reveals ‘Lisa’, Its $50M Gamble (1983)

#52

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 12:17 AM UTC

newsoul2019 wrote: post #43

gilbetron wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$25k after inflation. I had no idea it was that expensive!

I am really curious about how anyone could afford computers at these prices in the 1980s. I guess my family was really poor then. We had a C64 and later an Amiga.

As others have noted, individuals mostly didn't own PC clones or Macs in the early 80s and they weren't even all that common in businesses.

I did buy a dual floppy PC clone in about 1983. I don't remember how much it was--wish I still had my receipts from that far back--but it was a big purchase for me at the time. [ADDED: I probably dithered over it for something like a year, during which time it became obvious that PC clones were the future rather than the S100 etc. systems running CP/M.] Based on ads from the time, it was probably about $2500 but a printer and software would have added to that.

And when I went to business school about a year later, I was one of very few people in my class who had their own computer. (There was a small computer lab in the school--that actually had a Lisa among other things as I recall. At some point when I was there they added a bigger lab with a bunch of IBM AT clones (80286s)).

Re: Apple Reveals ‘Lisa’, Its $50M Gamble (1983)

#53

Post by pm90 » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 12:19 AM UTC

russellbeattie wrote: post #29

Trying to understand Steve Jobs is an effort in futility I know, but I've never understood what he was thinking around this time. He refused to accept responsibility for his daughter when she was born in 1978, and even 5 years later, he was still questioning the accuracy of DNA paternity tests in Time Magazine and despite being a multi-millionaire, only grudgingly paying $500 a month for child support. But then he go…

He was doing a lot of drugs and had mental health issues.

Re: Apple Reveals ‘Lisa’, Its $50M Gamble (1983)

#54

Post by Shebanator » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 12:25 AM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #20

icedchai wrote: post #4

This makes the new Mac Pro look like a bargain... especially after you adjust for inflation.

Bargain for whom? According to the article Lisa was a $50 million gamble. I just read somewhere about the 2000 engineers Google took on for the Pixel phone from HTC. Keeping the lights on for the buildings they are in is a $50 million gamble, that's without paying them or allowing for inflation. But you get the idea, $50 million was cheap for the product compared to what hardware tech costs to develop today, particul…

Keep in mind that $50M then is about $130M now, adjusted for inflation.

Re: Apple Reveals ‘Lisa’, Its $50M Gamble (1983)

#55

Post by Narishma » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 12:27 AM UTC

Chazprime wrote: post #31

gilbetron wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$25k after inflation. I had no idea it was that expensive!

My parent’s Mac II cost over $6000 at the time we got it. Compared to the IBM PCs at the time, the 640x480 hires display was stunningly gorgeous!

The Mac II was released in 1987. On the PC side, VGA cards were introduced a year earlier and could do those resolutions.

Re: Apple Reveals ‘Lisa’, Its $50M Gamble (1983)

#56

Post by canada_dry » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 12:28 AM UTC

Chazprime wrote: post #31

gilbetron wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$25k after inflation. I had no idea it was that expensive!

My parent’s Mac II cost over $6000 at the time we got it. Compared to the IBM PCs at the time, the 640x480 hires display was stunningly gorgeous!

My first Mac (512K) and Imagewriter cost north of $5,000. I still remember paying for it with cash from anything I could sell, a cheque with the money I'd saved for months, and the rest was on my newly acquired VISA card.

When I think about that investment as a ratio to my disposable income at the time, I was crazy! But, as a retired IT Exec, things did work out in-the-end.

Re: Apple Reveals ‘Lisa’, Its $50M Gamble (1983)

#57

Post by dahfizz » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 12:44 AM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #37

randomvectors wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we are definitely going to have more AR, I'm not convinced that it's the future at all. But I guess that's the case with most people and most technologies until they become ubiquitous. AR still seems like a solution looking for a problem.

Funny, I've felt the same thing about VR. With AR, I can think of a million practical applications. With any kind of VR that is short of full sensory immersion, I can't think of a single practical use.

Has VR ever been sold as "practical"? I've never seen it used for anything than gaming. That's a large enough market to justify the tech IMO.

Re: Apple Reveals ‘Lisa’, Its $50M Gamble (1983)

#58

Post by paulddraper » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 12:45 AM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #51

ttul wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IBM PC in 1981 cost $4,500 to $8,500 in today's money. The original Mac would cost $6,000 if released today. Computers have become a great deal cheaper in the ensuing decades.

Bill Machrone, long-time editor of PC Magazine, coined a "law" that the computer you wanted always cost $5,000. Which held reasonably true for a rather long time. It broke down maybe about 10 years ago although, as with the latest Mac, you can still get to $5K without too many gymnastics for pro video work or high end gaming.

Huh, pretty good.

I'd say it's now $3,750 for the whole setup.

$3,000 for the tower/laptop plus docking station [1] [2], $650 for dual monitors [3] [4], and $100 for peripherals [5] [6] [7].

And that's with Amazon + non-Mac.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/ThinkPad-20ER002KUS-Windows-Professio...

[2] https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Docking-40AJ0135US-Ge...

[3] https://www.amazon.com/Dell-27-Inch-LED-Lit-Monitor-S2719DGF...

[4] https://www.amazon.com/WALI-Standing-Adjustable-Capacity-MF0...

[5] https://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-K55-RGB-Gaming-Keyboard/dp/B0...

[6] https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Lag-Free-Wireless-Gaming-Mou...

[7] https://www.amazon.com/SteelSeries-QcK-Cloth-Gaming-Mouse/dp...

Re: Apple Reveals ‘Lisa’, Its $50M Gamble (1983)

#59

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 12:45 AM UTC

Chazprime wrote: post #31

gilbetron wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$25k after inflation. I had no idea it was that expensive!

My parent’s Mac II cost over $6000 at the time we got it. Compared to the IBM PCs at the time, the 640x480 hires display was stunningly gorgeous!

EGA (640×350) came out in late 1984 and was the first reasonably decent color display on the IBM PC. Prior to that you mostly had a choice between mono text, really crappy CGA color graphics, or something proprietary like the Hercules mono graphics.

Re: Apple Reveals ‘Lisa’, Its $50M Gamble (1983)

#60

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 12:48 AM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #20

icedchai wrote: post #4

This makes the new Mac Pro look like a bargain... especially after you adjust for inflation.

Bargain for whom? According to the article Lisa was a $50 million gamble. I just read somewhere about the 2000 engineers Google took on for the Pixel phone from HTC. Keeping the lights on for the buildings they are in is a $50 million gamble, that's without paying them or allowing for inflation. But you get the idea, $50 million was cheap for the product compared to what hardware tech costs to develop today, particul…

>the threat from IBM mentioned in the article. Peanuts turned out to be the ill-fated PCjr that had good graphics and a bad price point for the home market.

And a really lousy "chiclet" keyboard. I don't remember all the details of the PCjr flop but, as I recall, it was still quite a bit of money for a system that had a whole big bunch of compromises.