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Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

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Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#51

Post by NotPaidToPost »

binarymax wrote: post #11

I remember back in the 90's, when Intel was going to introduce a unique identifier in their processors that could be used for authentication purposes, it caused a huge uproar and Intel backed down. [0] Having a hardware embedded unique ID that can be (is) used for tracking a known persons location at all times is probably the most intrusive privacy violation we've ever had. That we willingly carry these things around…

The IMEI identifies a device. It is, or should be, useful to lock stolen phones, though it can obviously be used to track someone who keeps the same phone even if they change SIM card.

The IMSI identifies the subscriber (and/or the SIM card) even if you change phone.

As long as people are able to call and be called and as long as people need to be billed there has to be a reliable form of identification.

This is not an "intrusive privacy violation", it is, as you point out, a technical requirement of our willingness to be reachable and most people think that the benefits far outweigh the very limited drawbacks.

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#52

Post by aikah »

colechristensen wrote: post #18
maxxxxx wrote: post #2

By supporting Saudi Arabia the West really shoots itself in the foot. You can't lecture other countries about freedom while supporting this regime.

There is a delicate game being played. If you are friendly with SA you can put pressure on them to improve. If you declare them an evil enemy would the outcome be better? There is a path to walk and it is not easy to find the right one when you have to deal with reality not just idealism. The natural resources in the middle east are important to the world and it is not so simple as an 'us vs. them' because there are…

> If you are friendly with SA you can put pressure on them to improve.

People said the exact same thing with China 40 years ago. Nobody is pressuring on them to do anything and they couldn't care less.

Why do you think the royal family constantly panders to religious extremists? they are actively spreading the most orthodox version of Islam in every charity and mosque they finance.

They (the royal family) couldn't care less what the "west" thinks, they know western leaders are as corrupt as they are.

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#53

Post by rsync »

nugget wrote: post #33
colechristensen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a delicate game being played. If you are friendly with SA you can put pressure on them to improve. If you declare them an evil enemy would the outcome be better? There is a path to walk and it is not easy to find the right one when you have to deal with reality not just idealism. The natural resources in the middle east are important to the world and it is not so simple as an 'us vs. them' because there are…

The primary reason we care about Saudi is oil. US policy makers seem to view them as a necessary evil until we transition to renewable energy. No real effort is made to influence reforms. In fact, the more culturally isolated Saudi is from Europe and other countries, the better it is for the US, in terms of dependency. At some point after “peak oil” SA seems likely to experience extreme social upheaval - perhaps even…

"The primary reason we care about Saudi is oil."

This is true.

"US policy makers seem to view them as a necessary evil until we transition to renewable energy."

This is false. There is nothing at all necessary nor evil, relative to the United States. We use the middle east to establish a protection racket on oil flows to the rest of the world.

The United States gets zero, or near zero, oil from Saudi Arabia. The same is true for the UK which gets oil, almost exclusively, from the North Sea. We don't need Saudi Arabia for anything - certainly not as a "bridge to a renewable future".

We choose to hold the rest of the world (particularly Europe and Asia) at gunpoint with a "nice flow of cheap energy you have there ... sure would be a shame if anything happened to it ..."

"At some point after “peak oil” SA seems likely to experience extreme social upheaval ..."

Obligatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWeMpaC4VeA

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#54

Post by negamax »

QQ: Can we not make mobiles without IMEI? Surely in today's time WiFi is ubiquitous and that will only increase with many cities installing city wide free WiFi. A simple Internet only phone with built in Tor support can push the envelope.

Most of my communication is through apps. I don't think not having a number would make a huge difference

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#55

Post by nugget »

rsync wrote: post #53
nugget wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary reason we care about Saudi is oil. US policy makers seem to view them as a necessary evil until we transition to renewable energy. No real effort is made to influence reforms. In fact, the more culturally isolated Saudi is from Europe and other countries, the better it is for the US, in terms of dependency. At some point after “peak oil” SA seems likely to experience extreme social upheaval - perhaps even…

"The primary reason we care about Saudi is oil." This is true. "US policy makers seem to view them as a necessary evil until we transition to renewable energy." This is false. There is nothing at all necessary nor evil, relative to the United States. We use the middle east to establish a protection racket on oil flows to the rest of the world . The United States gets zero, or near zero, oil from Saudi Arabia. The sam…

Yes, you're correct - I meant until the world transitions and oil is no longer such a strategic commodity to anyone, which could still be a hundred years away.

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#56

Post by mikeash »

colechristensen wrote: post #18
maxxxxx wrote: post #2

By supporting Saudi Arabia the West really shoots itself in the foot. You can't lecture other countries about freedom while supporting this regime.

There is a delicate game being played. If you are friendly with SA you can put pressure on them to improve. If you declare them an evil enemy would the outcome be better? There is a path to walk and it is not easy to find the right one when you have to deal with reality not just idealism. The natural resources in the middle east are important to the world and it is not so simple as an 'us vs. them' because there are…

How many decades of a horrendous human rights record and exporting terrorism does it take before we admit that making friends with horrible people doesn’t improve them?

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#57

Post by deogeo »

sbierwagen wrote: post #48
stcredzero wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the 'death by a thousand cuts'. We couldn't fight every battle. We lost. So does the future belong to those who can administer the "thousand cuts?" In 2019, that means those who own the Cloud server farms and control the organizations that hire hordes of programmers. Does that mean that privacy is dead by an inexorable process? Doesn't that imply that individual liberty is also, eventually, dead? How can we, th…

>Does that mean that privacy is dead by an inexorable process? Yes. >Doesn't that imply that individual liberty is also, eventually, dead? Yes. >How can we, the people, administer the thousand cuts? Stop carrying a cell phone. There was a brief period of time, from 1990 to 8:40 AM, September 11th, 2001, when you could do all sorts of stuff online, and the powers that be either didn't, or couldn't, monitor it. That's…

> It would take real creativity for things to get that bad today.

It is easily as bad or worse. Those 50-200 people knew and cared for each-other, and depended on each-other, and the surveillance was bidirectional. Whereas now you are monitored by actors almost entirely beyond your reach, that will feel no remorse in crushing you, should the command be given by whoever is in control.

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#58

Post by justaaron »

maxxxxx wrote: post #26
Cyph0n wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weapons sanctions are guaranteed way to hit the Gulf monarchies hard. They are extremely dependent on US tech as far as I know.

The russians would be very happy to help probably.

There are also plenty of thieves in the world. Must we all become one "in order to remain competitive"?

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#60

Post by dopamean »

resoluteteeth wrote: post #30
colechristensen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a delicate game being played. If you are friendly with SA you can put pressure on them to improve. If you declare them an evil enemy would the outcome be better? There is a path to walk and it is not easy to find the right one when you have to deal with reality not just idealism. The natural resources in the middle east are important to the world and it is not so simple as an 'us vs. them' because there are…

> If you are friendly with SA you can put pressure on them to improve. If you declare them an evil enemy would the outcome be better? > There is a path to walk and it is not easy to find the right one when you have to deal with reality not just idealism. The natural resources in the middle east are important to the world and it is not so simple as an 'us vs. them' because there are many entirely separate interests in…

> it's completely absurd to pretend that the US is being friendly to SA as a means to effect change

Agreed. Also, where's the change? It feels like I've been hearing the same thing about SA since I was a kid.

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