Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI • Hacker News Board

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#31

Post by stcredzero » Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 7:00 PM UTC

binarymax wrote: post #24

moftz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel ME already can spit out the UUID of the chip and has been able to do it for over a decade.

Yes. Hence the 'death by a thousand cuts'. We couldn't fight every battle. We lost.

Hence the 'death by a thousand cuts'. We couldn't fight every battle. We lost.

So does the future belong to those who can administer the "thousand cuts?" In 2019, that means those who own the Cloud server farms and control the organizations that hire hordes of programmers. Does that mean that privacy is dead by an inexorable process? Doesn't that imply that individual liberty is also, eventually, dead?

How can we, the people, administer the thousand cuts?

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#32

Post by neilv » Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 7:00 PM UTC

binarymax wrote: post #11

I remember back in the 90's, when Intel was going to introduce a unique identifier in their processors that could be used for authentication purposes, it caused a huge uproar and Intel backed down. [0] Having a hardware embedded unique ID that can be (is) used for tracking a known persons location at all times is probably the most intrusive privacy violation we've ever had. That we willingly carry these things around…

The opposition to that, Clipper chip, and V-chip are three of the specific examples that come to mind when I think of cultural changes among CS techies.

My impression is that there used to be more awareness, concern, and forward-looking/vision about such things.

(I even recall techies being shunned for doing the tiniest fraction of invasiveness/recklessness that some major companies do today, yet those companies are now regarded as prestigious places for techies to work.)

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#33

Post by nugget » Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 7:02 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #18

maxxxxx wrote: post #2

By supporting Saudi Arabia the West really shoots itself in the foot. You can't lecture other countries about freedom while supporting this regime.

There is a delicate game being played. If you are friendly with SA you can put pressure on them to improve. If you declare them an evil enemy would the outcome be better? There is a path to walk and it is not easy to find the right one when you have to deal with reality not just idealism. The natural resources in the middle east are important to the world and it is not so simple as an 'us vs. them' because there are…

The primary reason we care about Saudi is oil. US policy makers seem to view them as a necessary evil until we transition to renewable energy. No real effort is made to influence reforms. In fact, the more culturally isolated Saudi is from Europe and other countries, the better it is for the US, in terms of dependency.

At some point after “peak oil” SA seems likely to experience extreme social upheaval - perhaps even revolution or civil war. One hopes that this could serve as a catalyst to build a more tolerant and inclusive society.

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#34

Post by justforyou » Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #18

maxxxxx wrote: post #2

By supporting Saudi Arabia the West really shoots itself in the foot. You can't lecture other countries about freedom while supporting this regime.

There is a delicate game being played. If you are friendly with SA you can put pressure on them to improve. If you declare them an evil enemy would the outcome be better? There is a path to walk and it is not easy to find the right one when you have to deal with reality not just idealism. The natural resources in the middle east are important to the world and it is not so simple as an 'us vs. them' because there are…

There's nothing delicate about the game being played and the goals of said game have nothing to do with privacy and human rights.

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#35

Post by justforyou » Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 7:05 PM UTC

sampo wrote: post #19

Cyph0n wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weapons sanctions are guaranteed way to hit the Gulf monarchies hard. They are extremely dependent on US tech as far as I know.

You just need to estimate to level of sanctions so that the monarchy will still be able to stay in power, without risking an Islamic revolution.

What's the net benefit of continuing to support the monarchy which exported wahhabism to the rest of the middle east?

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#36

Post by mieseratte » Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 7:05 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #10

sampo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By supporting Saudi Arabia the West really shoots itself in the foot. Well, the West went and took down the regime in Iraq, but some think that didn't go so well, either. SA is ruled by a clan and king, so it's not a full theocracy at least. If you go and perturb things, there is also room to make the situation worse.

Iraq and Libya, both of which seemed moderate compared to SA (Saddam less so then Qaddafi). Neither Iraq nor Libya have, to my knowledge, ever been used as an argument for why "we" have to unconditionally support SA, though. Neither of them have been an ally before "spreading democracy", so they don't make good analogies either imho. Also, "unwavering ally" and "we'll remove their state and let the country fall into…

I believe the point is that sometimes a tyrant is worse than cutting off the head and seeing the hydra.

Of course it’s possible Iraq would’ve gone different without the Coalition Provisional Authority’s early orders.

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#37

Post by mahkeiro » Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 7:06 PM UTC

sampo wrote: post #4

maxxxxx wrote: post #2

By supporting Saudi Arabia the West really shoots itself in the foot. You can't lecture other countries about freedom while supporting this regime.

> By supporting Saudi Arabia the West really shoots itself in the foot. Well, the West went and took down the regime in Iraq, but some think that didn't go so well, either. SA is ruled by a clan and king, so it's not a full theocracy at least. If you go and perturb things, there is also room to make the situation worse.

Can you tell me what is worst between a theocracy and an absolute monarchy? In SA, the king is bound by no law not even the law of god. He wants you dead on spot, and then you die. Doesn't sound to me a better system.

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#38

Post by neilv » Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 7:06 PM UTC

gesman wrote: post #15

Engaging security forces to chase women. Do they also give medals for bravery for that?

I share your concern and anger. This particular phrasing could sound like reinforcing a historical perception of women as innately weak and needing protection. I prefer to think of it as people needing help due to circumstances, and the circumstances in this case perhaps due in part to such historical perceptions.

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#39

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #20

tehjoker wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fwiw, the sanctions the US imposes on other countries often are brutal to their innocent population. One thing we could do is provide asylum for persecuted people, but appearently we don't do that anymore (and never have done it in great quantity).

A lot of the early European settlers in the US were fleeing religious persecution. But I suppose it wasn’t the USA then... https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel01.html

>A lot of the early European settlers in the US were fleeing religious persecution.

What's your point?

Some of them turned around and treated people who didn't fit in with them even worse than they themselves had been treated when in Europe. I can think of a couple groups who, in retrospect, the natives should have killed on day 1.

Re: Saudi Arabia tracks runaway women by cellphone IMEI

#40

Post by Scoundreller » Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 7:10 PM UTC

rolltiide wrote: post #25

pkaye wrote: post #3

Now that they know, they can try to swap out for a burner phone along the way.

I've been thinking about having a service that lets someone else randomize the location of your phone. That was the primary goal and it evolved to food delivery couriers having additional services where they charge people's phones in a lockbox while they run around all day. Result: Many people's location is erroneous data. No single person's use of the service is suspicious and merely reflecting a societal sentiment…

> I've been thinking about having a service that lets someone else randomize the location of your phone.

It’s called putting your old phone on eBay and buying a new (to you) one.

It really confuses the Saudi intelligence forces when they find a random dude instead of a Saudi runaway.

What I would like is to take advantage of some European mobile providers that have excellent roaming rates in Canada. Prices so good that a local Canadian could only dream of. I’d have 2 SIMs and put one in an rs232 interface each month that interfaces to a phone in EU so they don’t ban me for not spending enough time in the home country.