Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

jeromecohen.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 118 posts

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#21

Post by DocTomoe »

i_am_nomad wrote: post #6
DocTomoe wrote: post #5

Meanwhile, there is that Chinese Huawei Executive who is being held hostage in Canada as a trading chip in a trade war, waiting for her extradition to the US on the invented charges of having had traded with Iran (which is completely legal in China). If anything, I'd say it is a wonder that China has not started taking US Americans and Canadians hostage for the crime of being US American and/or Canadian.

China has done precisely that: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/16/canadians-deta...

In all fairness, one of these guys organizes trips to North Korea. It's not like they were making themselves inconspicuous.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#22

Post by close04 »

some_random wrote: post #17
ShorsHammer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat tangential: Do you think there are no spies operating in China whom are known to the current government? Why would China choose some random Westerners over known intel assets while knowing full well the case will appear so prominently on the world stage? Tourism makes up 10% of their economy. Nations tolerate this stuff and are well aware of who is who, it's how it is. Kicking out a known operative means ano…

They just execute the spies. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie...

Do we know what other countries do in such cases? The US has consistently addressed possible terrorists with black sites or drone strikes (executions). So is it beyond the realm of possibility that at least parts of undercover spy networks are dealt with in similar ways? And is there any expectation that a newspaper would be able to exercise the right to free speech and report on this given that a gag order is enough to prevent any such attempts under the threat of prison time (possibly in one of those black sites)?

Countries (especially superpowers) have been known to remove any semblance of due process, freedom, and security in the name of... freedom and security. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

P.S. I expect downvotes for my comment. I don't expect any will be accompanied by any attempts at a counter-argument. And my comment is not about whatabboutism, just that you can't single out someone unless they are actually singular in their actions.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#24

Post by 188201 »

wiggler00m wrote: post #12

I asked a Hong Kong lawyer this week about the proposed extradition law. In particular, of the following, who would it apply to: a) Chinese nationals; b) HK nationals; c) foreign nationals. He advised it would apply to all three. Edit: he also said it's not impossible the bill will be withdrawn.

Yes, it is true. It is confirmed by pro-China lawyer in HK local newspaper. The prosecution of Huawei CFO make China targeting foreign nationals in Hong Kong for revenge.

Moreover, the issue is not only about politics, but also economic. The most concern is about how China could use this to threaten any person including foreign nationals in Hong Kong. Have a business disputed with some Chinese business while in Hong Kong? Then, you could be extradited to China any time soon. It is not safe to do business in Hong Kong anymore. If this bill is passed, then it is expected Hong Kong would be completely replaced by Singapore within some time of period for foreign companies in Hong Kong to leave.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#25

Post by naringas »

egao1980 wrote: post #23

How this is worse than US extraditions / kidnapping of foreign nationals abroad? Never mind Assange there are plenty of people arrested outside of US and moved to US prison.

the USA ("Western") system has to at least fabricate some charges or destroy the target's reputation.

the PRC doesn't seem to have such 'cumbersome' restrictions.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#26

Post by iamdelirium »

egao1980 wrote: post #23

How this is worse than US extraditions / kidnapping of foreign nationals abroad? Never mind Assange there are plenty of people arrested outside of US and moved to US prison.

The article doesn't talk about the US or Assange at all. Why are you even bringing it up?

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#27

Post by lordleft »

egao1980 wrote: post #23

How this is worse than US extraditions / kidnapping of foreign nationals abroad? Never mind Assange there are plenty of people arrested outside of US and moved to US prison.

Who said it was worse? What matters is that it is wrong.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#28

Post by ipython »

egao1980 wrote: post #23

How this is worse than US extraditions / kidnapping of foreign nationals abroad? Never mind Assange there are plenty of people arrested outside of US and moved to US prison.

What is your solution, then? The demonstrators should realize the futility of their position, give up, go home, and allow the situation to deteriorate further?

Engaging in whataboutism just encourages the bad behavior you're highlighting here. It's a logical fallacy that leads to learned helplessness and a nihilistic worldview that actually ends up perpetuating the same vicious cycle I assume you wish to prevent.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#29

Post by Nasrudith »

some_random wrote: post #17
ShorsHammer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat tangential: Do you think there are no spies operating in China whom are known to the current government? Why would China choose some random Westerners over known intel assets while knowing full well the case will appear so prominently on the world stage? Tourism makes up 10% of their economy. Nations tolerate this stuff and are well aware of who is who, it's how it is. Kicking out a known operative means ano…

They just execute the spies. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie...

I thought those were jusr their catspaws and the norm for spying was far more sociopathically aristocratic - the official spies have if not holding diplomatic immunity have some sort of official connection.

Executing them is technically legally perscribed but simply not done in practice - instead being kept for prisoner exchanges.

Their networks of local contacts who do the actual work may not even get the benefit of a third world kangaroo court trial.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#30

Post by 07d046 »

egao1980 wrote: post #23

How this is worse than US extraditions / kidnapping of foreign nationals abroad? Never mind Assange there are plenty of people arrested outside of US and moved to US prison.

For every thing the American judicial system does wrong, China does a hundred things worse. The conviction rate in China is well over 99% (if they want to find you guilty, they will). You can be detained with no access to a lawyer or family indefinitely. There is no separation of powers (the legal system isn't independent of the political system, and the constitution isn't worth anything). Torture and forced confessions are common. Roughly a million people are currently being held in concentration camps without any trial.

I know it's popular to be critical of America, and it's good to shine light on the darkest parts of America, but there is no comparison between it and what goes on in other parts of the world.

Post reply on HN