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Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

nytimes.com

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Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#151

Post by xfitm3 »

radcon wrote: post #36

Weren't plastic bags created because they have a significantly smaller environmental impact than paper? You need to re-use a paper bag at least 3 times before it's better than using a plastic bag[1]. And let's face it, no one re-uses those flimsy paper bags from grocery stores, but they're becoming the standard wherever plastic is banned. Those "environmentally friendly" re-usable grocery bags aren't much better eith…

I think regulators are overreacting - its a feel good PR move. I require straws and paper straws are total garbage. It's an insult. And no, I am not going to carry a straw in my pocket.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#152

Post by alacombe »

remir wrote: post #130
amyjess wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and they'll also get soggy and dissolve in your drinks.

I tried paper straws a couple of times at A&W and it wasn't that bad. Granted, it was a cold drink, which could perhaps be problematic with hot drinks, but beside a texture difference, I found the paper straw to be an acceptable replacement.

They were probably coated with wax, which make them... non-recyclable.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#154

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

ridicter wrote: post #25

I see comments pointing out that the majority of plastic pollution in oceans come from Asia/Africa. This is true, but there are two points worth considering: 1) Whenever you pay cheaply for anything made in any third world country, you're externalizing the societal cost of pollution to that country (and if it gets into the oceans, to everyone). In other words, you're not paying the true cost of that item--economicall…

Can we please stop using the term third world when referring to Africa and Asia.

This is an outdated term that no longer represents the political and economic reality of the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#155

Post by RandomInteger4 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #118
nostromo wrote: post #37

I really wish they would include exceptions for biodegradable plastics -- which are increasingly indistinguishable from polymer plastics. When you ban "single use" plastics, people often buy "multi-use" plastics -- which are actually worse for the environment if not used many times, and people often only use them once. There are a number of stores around me where they have thick, heavy plastic bags for purchase for 5…

Our grocery stores sell disposable plastic bags for 5 cents and reusable fabric bags for a dollar. These fabric bags are so amazing and huge that I bought 15 just to help me move. The concept of a 5 cent reusable plastic bag is a head scratcher.

Fabric bags are worse for the environment than plastic bags, so they cost more, because of the process to make them.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#156

Post by 8bitsrule »

Everything we buy and throw-away has an energy cost for manufacturing, transport and disposal. We pay more for the energy and convenience and waste ... and so does the only environment we have to live in.

The acceptance of throwaway has to end. We HAVE to find (or go back to) new routines which minimize those costs. Single-use plastics are a start, but we'll need to thoroughly revise manufacture, consumption and re-use across the board.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#157

Post by mrpopo »

thatoneuser wrote: post #108
jlawson wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying this, but is there any evidence for it? I'm curious where this comes from. At first estimate we could just Google images of polluted rivers in Asia and Africa and look at the logos on the garbage. From my priors, I'd estimate that the plastics would almost all be from locally-consumed products, simply thrown into the river as is common and accepted in such places. My sense is that a lot of educated…

I just asked this question elsewhere in the thread. It seems that a lot of people just blindly believe it because it sounds good. But as you say between Asia and Africa we have over half the world's population. They're pretty far back in industrialization and they're bound to pollute way worse per person (divided by wealth on some way I'm sure). Frankly I'm sick of people using environmentalism as their soap box like…

Humans live of mimetism almost entirely (very little true innovation out of our lives). Historically, the trend-setters have been western countries. If western countries don't clean their own shit, others won't follow (note that I can't for sure argue the opposite implication unfortunately).

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#158

Post by lopmotr »

p1necone wrote: post #149
ridicter wrote: post #25

I see comments pointing out that the majority of plastic pollution in oceans come from Asia/Africa. This is true, but there are two points worth considering: 1) Whenever you pay cheaply for anything made in any third world country, you're externalizing the societal cost of pollution to that country (and if it gets into the oceans, to everyone). In other words, you're not paying the true cost of that item--economicall…

It's the same inane naysaying that pops up on anything about environmental concerns. "Look those other people are bad too, therefore we don't have to improve". That logic is bullshit and lazy, and we should call people out when we see it.

Western countries already do so much to protect the environment from plastic that there's not much room to improve. It almost all gets buried in landfills or burnt, not spilt into the ocean. Since we've pretty much solved the problem already, why not invest that money into something we're not doing well, like CO2 emissions? Even if we were to reduce plastic waste in the ocean, perhaps there are less costly ways, like fining people for littering, putting nets on the stormwater drain outfalls, or, shockingly, stop trying to recycle if that's how it's getting into the ocean.

All environmental efforts have a cost and it's a mistake of hyped-up media consumers to assume that the latest popular cause must be fought at any cost. There may be other, more effective, uses of that money on things that aren't in the news right now.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#159

Post by sonnyblarney »

ridicter wrote: post #25

I see comments pointing out that the majority of plastic pollution in oceans come from Asia/Africa. This is true, but there are two points worth considering: 1) Whenever you pay cheaply for anything made in any third world country, you're externalizing the societal cost of pollution to that country (and if it gets into the oceans, to everyone). In other words, you're not paying the true cost of that item--economicall…

"you're externalizing the societal cost of pollution to that country (and if it gets into the oceans, to everyone). In other words, you're not paying the true cost of that item"

It's not the responsibility of buyers a long way down the value chain and 1/2 way across the world to manage the social policies of other nations.

Do you want colonialism? Or not?

The 'pollution' is 100% the fault of the people doing it.

Also, I don't see why the manufacturing/creating process should be necessarily considerably more 'plastic waste intensive' than the end product itself - in fact, this would be economically wasteful and more expensive possibly.

So ... we could start putting big tarriffs on importers with bad environmental practice and human rights laws ...

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#160

Post by sonnyblarney »

uhhhhhhh wrote: post #41
nostromo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whenever you pay cheaply for anything made in any third world country, you're externalizing the societal cost of pollution to that country That's true maybe when it comes to atmospheric pollution, but not with plastic waste in rivers and the ocean. The majority of plastic found in rivers and the ocean are not industrial waste but post consumer waste... things like cigarette butts, plastic bags, and food wrappers.

>That's true maybe when it comes to atmospheric pollution, but not with plastic waste in rivers and the ocean. A large amount of that is waste exported to those third world countries, especially plastics for recycling.

If that is the case then again, the issue is on the receiving nation.

Richer nations are not externalizing their garbage, they're literally paying for it. If the receivers are not doing their job and putting it in the Earth, then that's not just some industrial by-product problem, it's point blank corruption.

Also, if it's consumer items in the Ocean, then the issue will be about where most consumers are, and how much they pollute, given that the issue might be Asia.

But the West obviously has enough of it's problems so it's not like anyone can point fingers really.

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