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Chase did a bad thing, so we did a good thing

chaseoptout.com

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Re: Chase did a bad thing, so we did a good thing

#191

Post by DannyBee »

mehrdadn wrote: post #183
jachee wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Yes. I personally filled out an electronic signature for my intent to opt out, Your Honor."

"You did not answer my question" is what I would expect after that.

The answer to your question would be yes. Your electronic signature, printed out and transformed to a different medium, is still a valid signature.

The whole point of the act is to say that clicking a button on a computer to make a signature that is valid. That it later gets transmitted in some other form is irrelevant.

If i create and print out a docusigned document and mail it, it is still a personally written and signed document.

It is no different if I fill out a form that makes a document for me and click a button to sign it.

If this is confusing, answer my reply above and I'll try to start seeing where the confusion is

Re: Chase did a bad thing, so we did a good thing

#192

Post by xwdv »

420basteit wrote: post #185

From one media manipulator to another: when you pay the premium price for a long-standing hacker news account, it's usually more convincing to let people find the comment history for themselves.

Is it really that much of a premium price? I’ve found a few HN accounts with downvote privileges for sale for reasonable prices compared to what people usually spend on marketing.

Re: Chase did a bad thing, so we did a good thing

#194

Post by latchkey »

zbruhnke wrote: post #10
snug wrote: post #4

Wait, you want me to put my credit card number and my personal info?

We also give you the ability to just download the form and mail it yourself! Unfortunately Chase forces customers to mail a letter with this information on it so there's not much we can do

I wrote to Chase on their 'secure message portal', which feels like it is straight out of 1995. I told them I'm out of the country and cannot send mail.

I told them that I am rejecting the agreement to arbitrate. I also said that since their message portal feels official, this would be what I would use as proof of my opt out in court, if the need arises. I saved some screenshots as well.

They have updated me once already to say that they are still working on a response.

Re: Chase did a bad thing, so we did a good thing

#195

Post by mehrdadn »

DannyBee wrote: post #188
mehrdadn wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could I ask which part of this "case law supports in spades"? I imagine you're not claiming they have to accept emails (?) and otherwise I don't even see how you could e-sign this to begin with; you have to write the letter that ends up in their P.O. Box somehow, so you have to make the statement yourself and put your personal signature on paper (via ink or toner or otherwise is not the point) and mail it to them. Bu…

I'm trying to understand your argument and I guess I don't. So lets start simple so I can understand it better: Do you think a signature made by a human clicking a button on a computer and then printed out is an electronic signature or a physical non-electronic one?

In this case, "a physical non-electronic signature". I could also see it as "a physical copy of an electronic signature" depending on if it's used in circumstances where you're presenting it as merely a copy of the original (e.g. for documentation/records of your contract with that website), but that's not the case here. Either way I don't see it as "an electronic signature" as far as the agreement goes. If it's on paper it's very clearly not "in electronic form".

Actually it's just like how if you send someone a letter via USPS that you typed and printed from Gmail then you've sent them mail, or perhaps a physical copy of an email, but not "an email".

Re: Chase did a bad thing, so we did a good thing

#196

Post by toomuchtodo »

gowld wrote: post #171
toomuchtodo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of humorous comment, as PCI DSS is self assessment and attestation of compliance. If OP states they’ve met their burden, that’s all that’s required at their scale.

PCI DSS assessments are signed by natural persons, not arbitrary HTML content.

Natural persons who are rarely, if ever, pursued when breaches occur.

Re: Chase did a bad thing, so we did a good thing

#197

Post by sneak »

gortok wrote: post #193

One red flag for me is that for Chase, your Credit Card number is your account number. So we're going to give third parties our credit card number... That's safe.

I give third parties my credit card number a half-dozen times per day. It’s not secret.

Re: Chase did a bad thing, so we did a good thing

#198

Post by bribri »

mjkornbl wrote: post #127
rkhassen wrote: post #104

For me the red flag is them willing to send this letter to Chase, via snail mail at no charge to you. Nobody gives something for nothing. So I thought, why would they do this? after reading through the form, at the bottom, it looks like one of the companies, who sponsors this site, "Radvocate" seems like they are in the "class action" lawsuit business. https://myradvocate.com/ This site is about having enough potenti…

Radvocate here: We do have a vested interest. Over time, we want to be the place you come when you have a dispute against a big company because we'll fight hard for you. We're excited to partner on this project partly because it is very "on brand" for us from that perspective — we can help people, get our name out there, and shine light on an issue that matters to us. We're a business, but we're also all in this busi…

Great Comment.

Re: Chase did a bad thing, so we did a good thing

#200

Post by mancerayder »

420basteit wrote: post #185

From one media manipulator to another: when you pay the premium price for a long-standing hacker news account, it's usually more convincing to let people find the comment history for themselves.

Wait, just how what are points worth in an account resale? It can't possibly be worth it for first world adults to sell.
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