Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#111

Post by steve_adams_86 » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 10:34 PM UTC

m23khan wrote: post #102

it really does sound great but as a Canadian, this is what I think will happen: - Retail will jump right away on this bandwagon and spend massive amounts of money advertising how they have done away with single use plastic - Retail will introduce alternatives and jack up price for pretty much all their products citing cost of new materials - The plastics industry will complain about their loss in business (despite ma…

For what it's worth, we currently externalize those 100s per year into the commons, which is where this tragedy came from. We need to start paying real prices for living instead of building up a debt of damage to the earth. If that means more subsidies to those in need, great. I'll pay more in taxes _and_ inflated living costs if it means the cost of living is more realistic. I'll gladly forgo so many conveniences in life if it means systemic changes which reduce pressure on the planet.

The reality is that food, energy, and many other natural resources should cost far more than they do. The primary way they've become more affordable is through externalizing costs and it's been a huge mistake.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#112

Post by DINKDINK » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 10:36 PM UTC

Will the production of plastic waste reduce when the outlawing of thin plastics is replaced by thicker plastics?

Your politician who benefits from passing feel-good legislation says yes.

Reality might surprise you:

"In particular, my results showed that bag bans caused sales of small (4 gallon), medium (8 gallon) and large (13 gallon) trash bags to increase by 120 percent, 64 percent and 6 percent respectively." https://theconversation.com/plastic-bag-bans-can-backfire-if...

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#113

Post by fooblitzky » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 10:38 PM UTC

pesfandiar wrote: post #52

davidy123 wrote: post #13

While I fully support this ban, even if it's not that much more than a gesture in the larger issue of carbon and the environment, I think it's largely related to the very public and embarrassing row over badly sorted garbage sent to the Philippines. https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/canadian-garbage-from-phi... That incident is however an indication of how difficult it is to properly dispose of single-use plastics,…

There's a federal election in Canada in October, and based on polls, the governing party is losing some votes to the Green Party. This could be more directly explained by that, but I agree that it's certainly a positive side effect regardless.

Don't forget it's the same government investing billions of dollars in petrochemical plants[1] to manufacture.... more plastic.

[1] https://globalnews.ca/news/4857778/canadian-petrochemical-gr...

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#114

Post by somerandomness » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 10:50 PM UTC

If 90% come from 10 rivers, shouldn't we focus on monitoring those?

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#115

Post by user5994461 » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 10:51 PM UTC

yardstick wrote: post #103

nostromo wrote: post #37

I really wish they would include exceptions for biodegradable plastics -- which are increasingly indistinguishable from polymer plastics. When you ban "single use" plastics, people often buy "multi-use" plastics -- which are actually worse for the environment if not used many times, and people often only use them once. There are a number of stores around me where they have thick, heavy plastic bags for purchase for 5…

Sounds like the price of reusable bags is too low where you are. There needs to be a price floor to discourage single-use. Eg 50 cents minimum per bag? In the UK we charge 5p for a single use bag, although lots of stores now only sell multi-use bags at 10p or more. I think it’s making a difference, I now actively carry a couple reusable bags around “just in case” I decide to visit a supermarket or spur of the moment…

The ban of plastic bag is a joke in the UK. The supermarket gives you the same shitty bag that's tore apart in 3 uses, except it's called reusable and you have to pay for it.

There is only maybe Lidl that has reusable bags, if they still do them, and that's half a pound each.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#116

Post by fooblitzky » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

rb808 wrote: post #96

I need bags for a bunch of things and now have to buy plastic bags online. I'd like to buy biodegradable ones, does anyone have any recommendations how to check for bags really will degrade?

You can look for logos showing the product is certified to compost in different environments, e.g.:

BPI: https://bpiworld.org/BPI-Public/Program.html OK Compost: http://www.tuv-at.be/home/

There are others.

Note that for most it still requires industrial composting to really decompose, and a bio-plastic bag in the ocean will be just as bad as a regular one.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#117

Post by fooblitzky » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 10:55 PM UTC

OrgNet wrote: post #93

makerofspoons wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't prescriptions come in recyclable paper boxes, or glass bottles for liquids?

Can you make an air-tight recyclable paper box? So that humidity/etc doesn't get in the pills

Seems like an ideal use case for a glass jar.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#118

Post by Waterluvian » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 10:55 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #37

I really wish they would include exceptions for biodegradable plastics -- which are increasingly indistinguishable from polymer plastics. When you ban "single use" plastics, people often buy "multi-use" plastics -- which are actually worse for the environment if not used many times, and people often only use them once. There are a number of stores around me where they have thick, heavy plastic bags for purchase for 5…

Our grocery stores sell disposable plastic bags for 5 cents and reusable fabric bags for a dollar. These fabric bags are so amazing and huge that I bought 15 just to help me move.

The concept of a 5 cent reusable plastic bag is a head scratcher.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#119

Post by monk_e_boy » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 10:57 PM UTC

ridicter wrote: post #25

I see comments pointing out that the majority of plastic pollution in oceans come from Asia/Africa. This is true, but there are two points worth considering: 1) Whenever you pay cheaply for anything made in any third world country, you're externalizing the societal cost of pollution to that country (and if it gets into the oceans, to everyone). In other words, you're not paying the true cost of that item--economicall…

Also, if we come up with sensible solutions then mass production of whatever packaging we decide on will also happen in Asia/Africa.

I like that we are doing something about plastic polution - yay! But I fear over fishing is actually more of a problem.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#120

Post by fooblitzky » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 10:57 PM UTC

jayess wrote: post #70

Can anyone answer whether plastic recycling actually happens? I've tried to search around before but can't find much concrete data on how/where plastic can actually be recycled and what it is recycled into.

About 9% is recycled: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/03/06/only-9-o...

Recycled is really a misnomer though, more of a marketing term. Plastic can only be down-cycled. E.g. used food containers can never be recycled into new containers to hold food ever again. Usually after a couple of hops it's roadbase or landfill.