Live data from Hacker News

Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

nytimes.com

71–80 of 197 posts

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, lets fine them $1000 per river.

I was thinking tariffs and visa quota reductions. No further first world dollars or access until mitigated.

According to [1], it seems that about half of the third world is taking this issue a bit more seriously than North America.

I mean, I'm all for tariffs, visa quota reductions, and closed borders with countries that pollute, but that would require us to look in the mirror, first. [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_lightweight_plast...

[2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Co2_emis...

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#72

I really wish they would include exceptions for biodegradable plastics -- which are increasingly indistinguishable from polymer plastics. When you ban "single use" plastics, people often buy "multi-use" plastics -- which are actually worse for the environment if not used many times, and people often only use them once. There are a number of stores around me where they have thick, heavy plastic bags for purchase for 5…

Biodegradable plastics are not more environmentally friendly than normal ones. Here's some more info about that.

https://vancouverisland.surfrider.org/compostable-plastics-1...

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#73
post #32

I see comments pointing out that the majority of plastic pollution in oceans come from Asia/Africa. This is true, but there are two points worth considering: 1) Whenever you pay cheaply for anything made in any third world country, you're externalizing the societal cost of pollution to that country (and if it gets into the oceans, to everyone). In other words, you're not paying the true cost of that item--economicall…

> first world nations often export their trash to third world nations Not anymore, pretty much all Asian countries have stopped accepting plastic trash.

The damages has been done. It could take hundreds of years and an order of magnitude's financial resources to clean it up land and underground water pollutions. But the air/ocean/atmosphere/carbon footprints are shared and affecting globally.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#74
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking tariffs and visa quota reductions. No further first world dollars or access until mitigated.

According to [1], it seems that about half of the third world is taking this issue a bit more seriously than North America. I mean, I'm all for tariffs, visa quota reductions, and closed borders with countries that pollute, but that would require us to look in the mirror, first. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_lightweight_plast... [2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Co2_emis...

Please don't move the goal posts with CO2 output versus plastics pollution. They are two distinct issues. If you can apply pressure on CO2 and methane emitters to push down their emissions, I strongly encourage you to do so. First world countries have astoundingly good waste management systems though.

Whether the third world outlaws single use light weight plastic bags doesn't impact their poor waste management infrastructure. People will still throw garbage (plastic bottles, bottle caps, straws, plastic containers, plastic cutlery) in their rivers. Stop people from throwing garbage in rivers, regardless of composition. You're not going to be able to outlaw everything thrown into the rivers.

"Last year, a third of the 1.67 million tons of domestic waste disposed in Singapore consisted of packaging waste, primarily plastic bags and food packaging. The amount is enough to fill more than 1,000 Olympic-size swimming pools, according to a Channel News Asia report."

“Six million tons of non-durable plastics -- basically cutlery -- gets discarded every year. It is estimated that by the year 2050, plastic in the ocean will outweigh fish," he adds.

If you're going to outlaw single use plastic, outlaw all of it and mandate paper bags or other fiber products; you're still going to need to implement waste management, landfilling, etc.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahleung/2018/04/21/five-asi... (Five Asian Countries Dump More Plastic Into Oceans Than Anyone Else Combined)

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#75
I find it amazing that plastic has only been around for less than a century, but has now become so ubiquitous and commonplace that it's a nuisance. Nearly all the other materials we use (wood, metal, etc.) have been around for many many centuries, but don't seem to pose the same inherent risk.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whenever you pay cheaply for anything made in any third world country, you're externalizing the societal cost of pollution to that country That's true maybe when it comes to atmospheric pollution, but not with plastic waste in rivers and the ocean. The majority of plastic found in rivers and the ocean are not industrial waste but post consumer waste... things like cigarette butts, plastic bags, and food wrappers.

>That's true maybe when it comes to atmospheric pollution, but not with plastic waste in rivers and the ocean. A large amount of that is waste exported to those third world countries, especially plastics for recycling.

I've seen this tossed around a lot the last few months, but I've yet to see any evidence of its truth. Do you have a link to a study or some other source for this?

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#77

I see comments pointing out that the majority of plastic pollution in oceans come from Asia/Africa. This is true, but there are two points worth considering: 1) Whenever you pay cheaply for anything made in any third world country, you're externalizing the societal cost of pollution to that country (and if it gets into the oceans, to everyone). In other words, you're not paying the true cost of that item--economicall…

I would also like to assert that non-western countries are very influenced by trends in North America and Europe. (Source: I am from such country in Africa, and am living in another in Asia)

Once the west establishes plastics as something for the uneducated and poor -- that they[the west] got away from, people will rush to use their fancy not-so-cheap bags.

Same with fossil fuels, recycling, carbon-related policies, ... etc

* I don't mean "uneducated and poor" literary, but just generally less fortunate people in the no-so-developed world

Related comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20157820)

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#78
post #72

I really wish they would include exceptions for biodegradable plastics -- which are increasingly indistinguishable from polymer plastics. When you ban "single use" plastics, people often buy "multi-use" plastics -- which are actually worse for the environment if not used many times, and people often only use them once. There are a number of stores around me where they have thick, heavy plastic bags for purchase for 5…

Biodegradable plastics are not more environmentally friendly than normal ones. Here's some more info about that. https://vancouverisland.surfrider.org/compostable-plastics-1...

... according to a "a student researcher from UVic who assisted" a surfing advocacy organization and some other randos.

Yes, litter will still be an issue, and no, you shouldn't just throw compostable things on the beach -- but comparing polymers which will float in the ocean for hundreds of years vs some compressed corn starch is no contest.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#79
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory (no evidence) is that the whole recycling movement has been completely counter productive since most of that material has been shipping abroad to countries that are poorly regulated. Had we just stuffed it into landfill (we have no shortage of space to take care of it, despite what the media says), we would be fine.

On the landfill topic, I found this Slate Star Codex post very interesting: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/01/01/what-happened-to-90s-e... I'd been idly wondering about the topic for years—specifically, WTF happened to all those environmental things schools & kids' nature magazines & cartoons had all the students worked up about back in the 90s? Are they fine now? Did it all go poorly so they gave up? You know, save…

A lot of our environmental issues have gone out of vogue because they tend to clash with the trendier value of immigration. It's easier for politicians to grandstand about carbon taxes and straws than face the real problems.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#80
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with carrying your own stainless steel straw? I mean if you know you need one it makes sense to me to have your own. Not being snarky, just curious.

It'll stab you in the throat. A real concern for children, and undoubtedly also for some disabled folk: https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2016/starbucks-to-recall-stainl... Just use biodegradable plastic straws.

Biodegradable plastic has its own issues as well. Nearly all of them are food-based and will set off one food allergy or another, plus you may also have issues with straws dissolving in hot liquids.

Someone elsewhere in the thread mentioned straws made of lobster shells. In addition to shellfish allergies, such a straw isn't going to be suitable for anyone who's vegan, and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't kosher either (TBH, I'm Jewish, but I don't keep kosher, and I don't know enough about the laws of kashrut to say whether or not drinking out of a lobster-shell straw is equivalent to eating lobster).

Post reply on HN