Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 185 posts

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#101

Post by Gpetrium »

Zoos can serve as an opportunity for people from different demographics to be able to see a small sample of what the world has to offer. It can also help facilitate conservation efforts by allowing people to have direct & indirect interactions with the animals and professionals in the area, which they would not have otherwise.

Some people have advised to "Close Zoos and encourage people to see the animal in nature" without thinking of the unintended consequence of having millions of people swarming into these animals' natural habitat. If more people were to see animals in their habitats, it would likely lead to an increase in pollution, an increase in motor injury to the animals, more dangerous animal-to-human interaction in nature among many other issues.

If society believes that some animals should not be in captivity at all due to moral/practical reasons, it is worth asking: What other technologically driven solutions can be made/used to help people of all demographics experience what it is like to be in front of X animal? The solution may be to have a moving replica, a 3D simulator or something entirely different.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#102

Post by JoeAltmaier »

codezero wrote: post #100
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without communicating with others to warn them of any danger. So, no dolphin cares about that? If they don't care, should we? I think its pretty cut-and-dried, dolphins are nowhere near as bright as humans.

My point is brightness or intelligence shouldn’t be the measuring stick for compassion for living things.

Right. But that goes for everything? When are we required to get concerned? Just mammals? All the way to bugs?

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#103

Post by [deleted] »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #64
diveanon wrote: post #58

I believe it will one day be possible to use AI techniques to communicate directly with these animals. I have often thought about running whale song through a RNN and broadcasting underwater to listen for responses. We don't need to go to other planets to find intelligent nonhuman life, it is already here and we are wiping them out and enslaving them. Our grandchildren will learn about this genocide in the same way w…

I'm not so sure. Big brain not the same as 'intelligent'. A story: every year a Japanese dog food company goes to a certain island lagoon where dolphins migrate to reproduce. They net and kill thousands and take them away. Each year some dolphins escape, inevitably. They swim around for a year, and then the next year come back (with many other dolphins) to the lagoon, and likely get netted and killed. Didn't they rem…

[deleted]

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#104

Post by mbostleman »

djsumdog wrote: post #80
braythwayt wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up with zoos and aquariums, and I have fond memories of them. But of course, I wasn't kept in one. And furthermore... Zoos and aquariums are not nature. They are exhibits in a kind of museum. If we want people to see nature, we have to preserve actual nature and encourage people to visit it. Visiting a zoo is not visiting nature, and I personally worry that equivocating the two is dangerous. I would not want p…

What do you think about national parks? I've been to a few and .. I dunno. I find it weird we pay to get into a federal park. I feel like the money exchange encourages them to advertise passes, and draws in more people. These parks are often overcrowded with so many people filling up parking lots to see nature. When you start building paths and roads and hiring rangers, you do make it safer for people to see these gr…

I live on the outskirts between Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks. While myself and locals access the (truly wild) back country regularly (it's generally why we live here), it's also really important that the 4+ million tourists from urban and suburban environments have visitor centers, boardwalks, signs, rangers, and guides. That middle ground is necessary for their safety as well as area around it. Yes, they will mess it up (or themselves) if allowed to roam freely - there's just too big of a gap between what they know and the real world. It would be great if that gap were less, but it's not, so I don't see a way around it. I'm just happy that so many have the desire and the opportunity to at least get that close.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#105

Post by astura »

debacle wrote: post #44
blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Monday's vote notably impacts Marineland, the Niagara Falls amusement park and zoo that is considered the last Canadian park committed to keeping cetaceans in captivity." Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere? (I know the back story but I never knew Marineland was the only place... not saying this is wrong or right, just surprised)

I went to Marineland ~10 years ago and it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen. Very poor wildlife management and obviously exploited orcas. I've heard it has gotten worse since then.

Marineland is known to be a complete train wreck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marineland_of_Canada#Controver...

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/10/03/the_man_behind_m...

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#106

Post by siidooloo »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #64
diveanon wrote: post #58

I believe it will one day be possible to use AI techniques to communicate directly with these animals. I have often thought about running whale song through a RNN and broadcasting underwater to listen for responses. We don't need to go to other planets to find intelligent nonhuman life, it is already here and we are wiping them out and enslaving them. Our grandchildren will learn about this genocide in the same way w…

I'm not so sure. Big brain not the same as 'intelligent'. A story: every year a Japanese dog food company goes to a certain island lagoon where dolphins migrate to reproduce. They net and kill thousands and take them away. Each year some dolphins escape, inevitably. They swim around for a year, and then the next year come back (with many other dolphins) to the lagoon, and likely get netted and killed. Didn't they rem…

Many humans get killed every year in driving accidents. Every year humans continue to drive. Didn’t they remember what happened? Didn’t they communicate it to other humans? Don’t they care?

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#108

Post by Reedx »

gingabriska wrote: post #93
maxxxxx wrote: post #60

Let’s hope this will soon be extended to other animals like bears, mountain lions and other who have huge ranges they usually live in. They develop a lot of psychotic behavior in captivity like constant pacing and others. Not sure if it’s much better but at a minimum they should be kept in large areas like parks where you then drive through so they have some area to roam.

What's the good reason for not extending it to cow, dog, cat etc...? Where do you draw the line?

That's a fair question. Just think about how many cats and dogs are stuck inside small apartments most of their lives.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#109

Post by ygjb »

i_am_proteus wrote: post #77
magduf wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zoos like the San Diego wildlife park (it's separate from the older San Diego Zoo, and outside the city a little) are good this way: they have lots of room for the animals to roam and it's more like their natural habitats. Also, with some animals, keeping them in zoos in the best place for them because they wouldn't survive in the wild. Many zoos have permanently injured birds, for instance, that can't fly any more,…

Some zoos also undertake conservation efforts such as captive breeding and reintroduction. [0] is just one example. I hope bills like this don't swing the pendulum too far and end up hindering conservation. [0] http://www.torontozoo.com/Conservation/captive-breeding.asp

I think that captive breeding with the goal of reintroduction would fall under the welfare and best interest or scientific research clauses introduced and amended by the legislation.

https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/S-203/third-...

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#110

Post by Tiktaalik »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #42
Ensorceled wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our current Prime Minister is a big fan of making grand statements when it comes to progressive issues[1]. This is as much a message to the rest of the world as to Canadians. [1] This isn't a criticism, per se, but this propensity does tend to get Trudeau and his party into trouble. I voted for his government in the last election and fully support this law.

Yeah, to his opponents it's grandstanding overreach. To me it seems like a codifying into law a statement about where society already is - much like marijuana laws, society was already there, but now it's acknowledging that, though in this instance it's banning and that was allowing. I'm not saying everything he's doing matches that, but in this instance, it would seem to be the case.

Getting political, but this is classic Liberal Party. It's smart politics. It allows the party to claim the mantle of progressiveness even though it wasn't really them that did any of the work.

See also: Gay Marriage legalization. The Liberals passed a bill legalizing it, but only after the courts of two provinces were set to make it legal anyway.

Post reply on HN